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Google employees say AI researcher did not resign, despite what exec claims

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Re: Google employees say AI researcher did not resign, despite what exec claims

#21

Post by abea »

tantalor wrote: post #13
shkkmo wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone says "if you don't fix this thing I will look for work elsewhere" that doesn't mean that you can say "I accept your resignation." If you want that person gone immediately, you have to fire them.

The following are equivalent: - I will look for work elsewhere - I will work on a last date - My last date is - This job isn't working out - I don't want to work here anymore - I offer my resignation - I quit

Ridiculously untrue. This specific case aside, if you are a manager and see all of these as equivalent statements, it's a pretty clear sign you don't care about your team.

Re: Google employees say AI researcher did not resign, despite what exec claims

#22

Post by krooj »

kd913 wrote: post #12

It disturbs me how much of a news story this is. This should be handled internally and not aired in public across several media sites. Why should I care about the dirty laundry of FAANG and some random individual?

It reeks of an ulterior motive / agenda, but to what end?

Re: Google employees say AI researcher did not resign, despite what exec claims

#23

Post by alisonkisk »

shkkmo wrote: post #6
hartator wrote: post #3

Didn’t she gave an ultimatum? Do this or I resign? And they are like we can’t do this so we consider you terminated?

If someone says "if you don't fix this thing I will look for work elsewhere" that doesn't mean that you can say "I accept your resignation." If you want that person gone immediately, you have to fire them.

It's fuzzy. If someone in a heated dispute says, "I resign, effective some time in the next month", what do you do? Keep them on until you agree in a date? Even if they give a date like "Dec 31", do you let them keep all their access to sensitive company data, or you lock them out for security's sake and settle the legal and payroll paperwork separately?

Re: Google employees say AI researcher did not resign, despite what exec claims

#24

Post by actuator »

KittenInABox wrote: post #20
tantalor wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The following are equivalent: - I will look for work elsewhere - I will work on a last date - My last date is - This job isn't working out - I don't want to work here anymore - I offer my resignation - I quit

I've stated before that I don't want to work at a job without intending to actually leave the job or having a last date. In those cases I was venting and was burnt out. I've even admitted this to managers I could trust to talk about how to unburn me instead of declaring I've 'resigned', because I bring a lot of value to teams I'm on.

I am quite sure you didn't send email to fellow employees asking them to immediately stop work on the projects they were working on.

I am assuming that was the red line, I am not a manager but it would have been for me.

Re: Google employees say AI researcher did not resign, despite what exec claims

#25

Post by gerash »

kd913 wrote: post #12

It disturbs me how much of a news story this is. This should be handled internally and not aired in public across several media sites. Why should I care about the dirty laundry of FAANG and some random individual?

Obviously the individual who was let go loves the fame but I see most news website are pretty much looking for some sensational story to run mainly because doing more thorough analysis doesn't pay for itself. That's the problem.

Re: Google employees say AI researcher did not resign, despite what exec claims

#26

Post by omgwtfbyobbq »

tantalor wrote: post #13
shkkmo wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone says "if you don't fix this thing I will look for work elsewhere" that doesn't mean that you can say "I accept your resignation." If you want that person gone immediately, you have to fire them.

The following are equivalent: - I will look for work elsewhere - I will work on a last date - My last date is - This job isn't working out - I don't want to work here anymore - I offer my resignation - I quit

I've never regarded those as equivalent. Some are equivalent to others, but they range from expressing displeasure about your job to flat out quitting.

Re: Google employees say AI researcher did not resign, despite what exec claims

#27

Post by alacombe »

worker767424 wrote: post #19
alisonkisk wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. But they said "we accept your resignation" without waiting to see if she'd follow through on the ultimatum, and without respecting her stated plan to work on an end date.

> without waiting to see if she'd follow through on the ultimatum Sending an email to your boss saying "I'll resign unless X" is a serious ultimatum. You need to be prepared to not have a job when at the end of it, and you were the one who initiated the process. I'm not too concerned with if she technically should have been given a chance to take it back. Don't send an email threatening to resign, lose your job, then…

> I'll resign unless X" is a serious ultimatum

Obviously, not if you're BIPOC, in this case, bullying is encouraged and any negative outcome will reinforce your victim status.

Re: Google employees say AI researcher did not resign, despite what exec claims

#28

Post by [deleted] »

bioinformatics wrote: post #15
kd913 wrote: post #12

It disturbs me how much of a news story this is. This should be handled internally and not aired in public across several media sites. Why should I care about the dirty laundry of FAANG and some random individual?

How do you think she will get attention to her cause(s)?

[deleted]

Re: Google employees say AI researcher did not resign, despite what exec claims

#29

Post by zorpner »

oh_sigh wrote: post #5

Why would other employees be knowledgeable in the employment relationship between someone and a company? Unless the employees are in the direct management chain, or HR or something, aren't they just parroting what Timnit is claiming?

In fact, Timnit Gebru's actual manager has issued a specific statement on this. It's on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=34697380164672...

Full text:

Just wanted to say that I was stunned by what just happened to Timnit Gebru, who was in my team until a few days ago (I'm sure you've all read what happened already). I have always been and will remain a strong supporter of her scientific work to make sure that AI becomes a positive force for the minoritized, as well as her generosity and tireless actions to lift the voices of the silenced ones. She taught me a lot and still is. I stand by you, Timnit. I also stand by the rest of my team who, like me, was stunned and is trying to make sense of all this. In particular the Ethical AI team, but also the broader Brain Research team.

Re: Google employees say AI researcher did not resign, despite what exec claims

#30

Post by KittenInABox »

actuator wrote: post #24
KittenInABox wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've stated before that I don't want to work at a job without intending to actually leave the job or having a last date. In those cases I was venting and was burnt out. I've even admitted this to managers I could trust to talk about how to unburn me instead of declaring I've 'resigned', because I bring a lot of value to teams I'm on.

I am quite sure you didn't send email to fellow employees asking them to immediately stop work on the projects they were working on. I am assuming that was the red line, I am not a manager but it would have been for me.

That's a completely separate issue as to whether or a set of statements all mean the same thing. I entirely agree that there was serious unprofessional behavior in venting out to a listserv of direct reports. But that doesn't mean all the criticisms laid out are correct, such as "saying X means Y".
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