Google employees say AI researcher did not resign, despite what exec claims • Hacker News Board

Re: Google employees say AI researcher did not resign, despite what exec claims

#11

Post by oh_sigh » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 7:50 PM UTC

alisonkisk wrote: post #7

hartator wrote: post #3

Didn’t she gave an ultimatum? Do this or I resign? And they are like we can’t do this so we consider you terminated?

Yes. But they said "we accept your resignation" without waiting to see if she'd follow through on the ultimatum, and without respecting her stated plan to work on an end date.

AIUI, she is still on the payroll, but has just been restricted from accessing anything. There's no law (at least -in the US) that says that if an employee gives their 2 weeks notice, that you have to let them keep coming in for those 2 weeks. You can just give them 2 weeks of salary and tell them to immediately leave. From one of the leaked emails, it seems like she would have been given her 2 weeks if she hadn't written a rambling screed imploring other employees to stop working on certain projects.

Re: Google employees say AI researcher did not resign, despite what exec claims

#12

Post by kd913 » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 7:51 PM UTC

It disturbs me how much of a news story this is.

This should be handled internally and not aired in public across several media sites. Why should I care about the dirty laundry of FAANG and some random individual?

Re: Google employees say AI researcher did not resign, despite what exec claims

#13

Post by tantalor » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 7:51 PM UTC

shkkmo wrote: post #6

hartator wrote: post #3

Didn’t she gave an ultimatum? Do this or I resign? And they are like we can’t do this so we consider you terminated?

If someone says "if you don't fix this thing I will look for work elsewhere" that doesn't mean that you can say "I accept your resignation." If you want that person gone immediately, you have to fire them.

The following are equivalent:

- I will look for work elsewhere

- I will work on a last date

- My last date is

- This job isn't working out

- I don't want to work here anymore

- I offer my resignation

- I quit

Re: Google employees say AI researcher did not resign, despite what exec claims

#14

Post by KittenInABox » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 7:52 PM UTC

Can I ask with the upmost politeness what is going on? I genuinely went into this considering that this was someone who is essentially decrying that normal work difficulties are sexism or racism. But I'm now finding that the procedure claimed actually essentially doesn't exist or if it did it was never enforced until now. What is going on?

If this was an issue of the researcher unprofessionally airing her frustrations on a listserv with direct reports that's one thing. It's another thing to say being upset at all was an overreaction because the treatment was totally normal and that her frustration was a resignation, when in fact, none of that is true in any good faith interpretation.

Re: Google employees say AI researcher did not resign, despite what exec claims

#15

Post by bioinformatics » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 7:52 PM UTC

kd913 wrote: post #12

It disturbs me how much of a news story this is. This should be handled internally and not aired in public across several media sites. Why should I care about the dirty laundry of FAANG and some random individual?

How do you think she will get attention to her cause(s)?

Re: Google employees say AI researcher did not resign, despite what exec claims

#16

Post by alisonkisk » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 7:52 PM UTC

oh_sigh wrote: post #5

Why would other employees be knowledgeable in the employment relationship between someone and a company? Unless the employees are in the direct management chain, or HR or something, aren't they just parroting what Timnit is claiming?

Sure, but management is also making a claim without direct evidence.

Re: Google employees say AI researcher did not resign, despite what exec claims

#17

Post by m1117 » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 7:53 PM UTC

Hard to understand this without the right intel from the management team. A big puzzle piece is missing. Let's see if there're going to be any insiders sharing more info.

Re: Google employees say AI researcher did not resign, despite what exec claims

#18

Post by shkkmo » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 7:54 PM UTC

tantalor wrote: post #13

shkkmo wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone says "if you don't fix this thing I will look for work elsewhere" that doesn't mean that you can say "I accept your resignation." If you want that person gone immediately, you have to fire them.

The following are equivalent: - I will look for work elsewhere - I will work on a last date - My last date is - This job isn't working out - I don't want to work here anymore - I offer my resignation - I quit

Legally speaking, that is not true at all.

Edit: if you say "I don't want to work here anymore." And you get your "resignation date moved up" you still get your unemployment benefits because you were fired.

Re: Google employees say AI researcher did not resign, despite what exec claims

#19

Post by worker767424 » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 7:54 PM UTC

alisonkisk wrote: post #7

hartator wrote: post #3

Didn’t she gave an ultimatum? Do this or I resign? And they are like we can’t do this so we consider you terminated?

Yes. But they said "we accept your resignation" without waiting to see if she'd follow through on the ultimatum, and without respecting her stated plan to work on an end date.

> without waiting to see if she'd follow through on the ultimatum

Sending an email to your boss saying "I'll resign unless X" is a serious ultimatum. You need to be prepared to not have a job when at the end of it, and you were the one who initiated the process. I'm not too concerned with if she technically should have been given a chance to take it back. Don't send an email threatening to resign, lose your job, then say "actually, I was fired."

> and without respecting her stated plan to work on an end date.

You don't really want to let an employee already sending inappropriate emails to a wide audience have another week to send more.

I've been in a professionally self-destructive place before and I didn't realize it until later. 100% speculation here, but I wouldn't be shocked if she had a death wish and was hoping for some version of this outcome. Could be frustration with work, covid depression, or something else.

Re: Google employees say AI researcher did not resign, despite what exec claims

#20

Post by KittenInABox » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 7:55 PM UTC

tantalor wrote: post #13

shkkmo wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone says "if you don't fix this thing I will look for work elsewhere" that doesn't mean that you can say "I accept your resignation." If you want that person gone immediately, you have to fire them.

The following are equivalent: - I will look for work elsewhere - I will work on a last date - My last date is - This job isn't working out - I don't want to work here anymore - I offer my resignation - I quit

I've stated before that I don't want to work at a job without intending to actually leave the job or having a last date. In those cases I was venting and was burnt out. I've even admitted this to managers I could trust to talk about how to unburn me instead of declaring I've 'resigned', because I bring a lot of value to teams I'm on.