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Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

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Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#391

Post by Staurt101 »

fastball wrote: post #167
noelsusman wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it be good to free currency from government regulation? This is something I often see crypto advocates blow right past as if it's self explanatory, but I don't think it is. I like that the currency I use is managed by my government. Why should I want to switch?

Obviously the biggest one is concern over things like hyperinflation, which has happened in the real-world many times. Or, not quite at hyperinflation, but your government is enacting policies based on MMT or similar and you are worried that this could hurt you (as a holder of the currency) in the long-run. Or, maybe you're worried about governments being able to dictate what you are allowed to purchase with "their"…

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Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#392

Post by Staurt101 »

betwixthewires wrote: post #354
noelsusman wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it be good to free currency from government regulation? This is something I often see crypto advocates blow right past as if it's self explanatory, but I don't think it is. I like that the currency I use is managed by my government. Why should I want to switch?

So I hate to use the word I'm about to use, because of the modern connotations associated with it, but it does apply here. There are billions of people who are abused by their government, who cannot trust their government, who's local money is debased by their government at a whim. You are privileged (there's that word) to have a government that you feel you can trust to control the value of your savings and your pur…

Lord Masuka helped me bring my husband back after he abandoned me for half a year, contact him today for any help lordmasukaspelltemple@hotmail.com or whatsapp him +1(234)-307-0752

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#393

Post by alwillis »

betwixthewires wrote: post #354
noelsusman wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it be good to free currency from government regulation? This is something I often see crypto advocates blow right past as if it's self explanatory, but I don't think it is. I like that the currency I use is managed by my government. Why should I want to switch?

So I hate to use the word I'm about to use, because of the modern connotations associated with it, but it does apply here. There are billions of people who are abused by their government, who cannot trust their government, who's local money is debased by their government at a whim. You are privileged (there's that word) to have a government that you feel you can trust to control the value of your savings and your pur…

There are billions of people who are abused by their government, who cannot trust their government, who's local money is debased by their government at a whim.

The United States inflated the money supply by many trillions of dollars in the past year, which decreases the buying power of the dollar. With savings accounts paying close to 0% interest, due to inflation, savers are losing money in these accounts each year.

And while the goal of the Fed is to manage the economy to have about 2% inflation, in reality, the things that people care about—higher education, medical care, real estate in many cities—has inflated much more than 2% annually.

The dollar is being debased gradually; one day it could be sudden.

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#394

Post by oblio »

betwixthewires wrote: post #366
oblio wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. How about the first point, that it solves a problem most people don't have? Why would this be a mass market product? What's the benefit for J. Random?

I'm copying a comment I made earlier that answers this question: So I hate to use the word I'm about to use, because of the modern connotations associated with it, but it does apply here. There are billions of people who are abused by their government, who cannot trust their government, who's local money is debased by their government at a whim. You are privileged (there's that word) to have a government that you fee…

Oh, I forgot something.

> whose local money is debased by their government at a whim

How do you reconcile this with the wild speculation happening for Bitcoin, the only widely adopted cryptocurrency? It would definitely not be a solid investment vehicle. I mean, I understand the desire to use it out of desperation, but it's still not a solid alternative. You're just at the whims of the world's miners and speculators.

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#395

Post by rglullis »

giovannibonetti wrote: post #268
grey-area wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK, I have low-cost, fast, reliable, accessible money transfers. Basic bank accounts are free, and come with reliable free instant transfers to any other UK bank. That may not be reality in all countries, but it is in many. That's quite a high bar for rival payment methods to clear, but I think the main problem for corporate currencies like this will be rivalry from government issuers. Governments jealously gu…

> In the UK, I have low-cost, fast, reliable, accessible money transfers. Basic bank accounts are free, and come with reliable free instant transfers to any other UK bank. That may not be reality in all countries, but it is in many. It is also a reality in Brazil. Last month the government and the banks released a standard money transfer protocol (PIX) which superseeds the other protocols (similar to ACH in USA). Che…

> I don't see FB having much success in Brazil with this product.

Really?! They just need to tie whatsapp payments with a novi wallet, perhaps offer a few bucks as bait and suddenly they get millions of users.

Never underestimate the power of a monopoly position.

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#396

Post by fibo »

camgunz wrote: post #121

The core feature of any cryptocurrency is "money w/o state regulation", but when you're talking about selling it for any major currency (Dollars, Euros, Sterling, Yen, RMB) guess what, you're regulated. There is no way around this, regulators are wise (more than wise, hypervigilant) to it. As a result, this stuff is just cumbersome currency that roasts the planet. No thank you.

the main feature it is not de-regulation but de-centralization, anyone could run a Bitcoin node and unless you own 51% of the network you cannot control it

Facebook is trying to create yet another world bank

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#397

Post by fibo »

tomp wrote: post #56

Ok, so let's focus on the underlying idea, without the "Facebook is trying to rebrand their evil brand" cruft. Basically, I think the underlying idea is valuable - low-cost, fast, reliable, accessible money transfers - clearly something missing right now in this world, even for the "global rich" (citizens of first-world countries), let alone for the "unbanked". It could even scale even more to a money store but that'…

nobody will fund a technology like Libra, owned by Facebook, in fact they already failed before

the main point is that Bitcoin is decentralized, there are many nodes in China, Iran, etc. that is why it has so much value

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#398

Post by alwillis »

JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #383
tomp wrote: post #56

Ok, so let's focus on the underlying idea, without the "Facebook is trying to rebrand their evil brand" cruft. Basically, I think the underlying idea is valuable - low-cost, fast, reliable, accessible money transfers - clearly something missing right now in this world, even for the "global rich" (citizens of first-world countries), let alone for the "unbanked". It could even scale even more to a money store but that'…

I don't understand why people just can't use Ethereum for this with a little more polishing on the UI end from the devs. It has the added benefit of being decentralized, something Facebook or any other company or charity will never be. It even recently implemented proof of stake rollout so it isn't using massive environmental resources for proof of work in the future. Of course Bitcoin was ideal for this but it went…

Of course Bitcoin was ideal for this but it went off the rails for the banking the unbanked dream when it refused to scale from a blistering 7 transactions per second and the associated high fees.

You can check any bitcoin dashboard (such as https://bitbo.io); the current transaction fee is 1 satoshi/vByte for a transaction. The average bitcoin transaction is ~250 bytes. 1 satoshi = $0.00019273. A transaction that can wait an hour costs about $0.05.

The "bitcoin doesn't scale" thing really isn't a thing. Lyn Alden addresses this in her "7 Misconceptions about Bitcoin" article [1]:

"In other words, suppose that the Bitcoin network is limited to 250 transactions per minute, which is low. Those transactions could average $100 or $1 million, or any number. If they average $100 each, it means only $25,000 in transaction value is performed per minute. If they average $1 million each, it means $250 million in transaction value is performed per minute. If Bitcoin grows in use as a store of value, the transaction fees and inherent limitations prioritize the largest and most important transactions; the major settlement transactions.

Additional layers built on top of Bitcoin can do an arbitrary number of transactions per minute, and settle them with batches on the actual Bitcoin blockchain. This is similar to how consumer layers like Visa or Paypal can process an arbitrary number of transactions per minute, while the banks behind the scenes settle with larger transactions less frequently."

Lightning Network is a layer 2 protocol on top of bitcoin; transactions settle in seconds and the fees are tiny—about 1 satoshi—(a fraction of a penny) per hop. Not only are they cheap, they're private as Lightning runs over Tor.

The UI/UX of the current crop of Bitcoin/lightning wallets for iOS and Android, such as BlueWallet (https://bluewallet.io) is quite good.

[1]: https://www.lynalden.com/misconceptions-about-bitcoin/

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#399

Post by davidgerard »

wlesieutre wrote: post #312
wpietri wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is there a reason this is tied to the blockchain? The only legitimate reason I can think of would be cynically drafting on the hype cycle. But I've been reading David Gerard's book Libra Shrugged [1] and it looks like the actual answer is that "blockchain" has a quasi-religious belief system built up around it, and the people involved are members of the faith. One of the stunning things for me about "blockchain" re…

Could just be thanks to technology office politicking. Some senior engineer or manager says "I want to work on blockchain projects", invents a reason to do that within Facebook, or maybe their boss really wants to keep them there, and somehow they get enough buy-in to create Libra. Now they have a blockchain project. This seems more likely to me than someone at Facebook saying "We need a our own money system," evalua…

> Some senior engineer or manager says "I want to work on blockchain projects", invents a reason to do that within Facebook, or maybe their boss really wants to keep them there, and somehow they get enough buy-in to create Libra. Now they have a blockchain project.

This is pretty much how it happened. A Bitcoin fan started at Facebook, started from "how do we use a blockchain here" then came up with something to use a blockchain for, and recruited some executives who thought similarly.

Most of what's weird and dumb about Libra/Diem is because it was started by four bitcoiners, from bitcoin ideas. It turns out that ideas from a cryptocurrency that was started in order to evade government control don't play well in the heavily regulated environment of Other People's Money.

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#400

Post by codehalo »

tromp wrote: post #329
cloudinshape wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true at all. People, and state economists, have confused inflation and deflation so much for their propaganda that right now is almost imposible to have a discussion around it primarily because different people don't mean the same things when they use those words. Is the inflation you talk about consumer price inflation? is it assets price inflation? or is it money supply inflation? is the deflation caused by inc…

I believe we're discussing supply inflation.

You made his point.
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