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Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

diem.com

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Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#161

Post by that_guy_iain »

eloff wrote: post #101
that_guy_iain wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is meant to be a completely different ecosystem, no? An ecosystem not controlled with the US. This isn't a normal financal service, it's not banking, it's outside of banking hence why it's aimed and people without banks. And other companies are already in this space providing basically the same service. It seems to me, people applying how companies 1st world countries + the US operate to how companies in 3rd wor…

That might be workable only if you specifically don't interface with the outside financial world. If for example you require a third party exchange to sell to fiat currency, that should work. But that exchange has to do the KYC stuff and the unbanked are still cut out. Now if it's a local exchange for a local currency, not USD then is fine.

> Now if it's a local exchange for a local currency, not USD then is fine.

They can exchange in physical currency which would be acceptable in most third world countries and with the amount physical currency floating around they wouldn't need to get any from the US, no?

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#162

Post by tomp »

baby wrote: post #140
tomp wrote: post #56

Ok, so let's focus on the underlying idea, without the "Facebook is trying to rebrand their evil brand" cruft. Basically, I think the underlying idea is valuable - low-cost, fast, reliable, accessible money transfers - clearly something missing right now in this world, even for the "global rich" (citizens of first-world countries), let alone for the "unbanked". It could even scale even more to a money store but that'…

1) think of it as a centralized database that needs replication, you’d be a bit worried if this central place got attacked, so then you need some gossip-based protocol in place to allow some users to police the system. Consensus is a simple one because it allows most users to trust that consensus was agreed on correctly, as opposed to systems like transparency protocols that require users to more willingly engage in…

2) Does Facebook (or any other for-profit company) get access to the data (now or ever in the future)?

3) So if I want to send money (from say GBP) to someone in Japan, what would happen? Is the FX exchange seamless or will I need to use some intermediary coin?

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#163

Post by samatman »

alvarosevilla95 wrote: post #146
logifail wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you can get it anonymously, you can move it anywhere you want as long as you stay on the blockchain Q: Is this fundamentally different to having a suitcase full of cash?

No, but only if your suitcase will only open if unlocked by a cryptographically secure key and no one can open it through other methods. They can't steal the suitcase itself either. And you can instantly teleport the contents of your suitcase to an equivalent suitcase held by any other individual on the planet. And third parties can't arbitrarily devalue the contents of your suitcase by printing more of it.

The last part of this almost certainly doesn't apply to "Diem".

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#165

Post by tomp »

pavlov wrote: post #118
tomp wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I agree. First of all, it's not "Europe" but rather "Euro-accounts" (so no cross-currency transfers). Also not that fast - don't work overnight, on the weekends, payments might take a day to arrive. I just checked - paying 10EUR from my UK account to the EUR area takes 2-4 days (I'd need to pay 15GBP for an "urgent" next- business -day transfer) (same rate as TransferWise) whereas if I want to send 10kEU…

The 250 GBP must be the exchange fee? If your account is in GBP and the destination is in EUR, the bank gets to charge you for the exchange. 2.5% is a typical rate. That's unfortunate, but is unrelated to the cost of transfer. Euro transfers have become instant and 24/7 thanks to the SEPA Instant Credit architecture: https://www.europeanpaymentscouncil.eu/what-we-do/sepa-insta... You can transfer up to 100k EUR in le…

I don't mind the fee per se I just object to obfuscating it (which I term "fraud" thought that might not be the legal definition).

NatWest app says £0.00 fee and some FX rate but when I compare with TransferWise, the difference is £250, which means that the "FX rate" implicitly contains the fee.

Maybe not "fraud" legally but I don't want to support such non-transparent business practices.

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#166

Post by TigeriusKirk »

jiofih wrote: post #123
TigeriusKirk wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a global project, so it will be used in countries where this just isn't accurate.

Like, for example? Micronesia? You may want to update your world view for the 21st century - there is no “wild west” left, every country where this matters will have financial regulations.

It's simply wrong to state every country that "matters" has KYC/AML regulations similar to those required in the US.

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#167

Post by fastball »

noelsusman wrote: post #151
fastball wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly like the argument that electric cars aren't actually any better because grid electricity is not currently very green in most parts of the world. The response of course being that as the grid gets greener (which it does every year), your car becomes greener also. If you have a gasoline car, it will be just as dirty in 20 years as it is today. Same thing with crypto. Yes, currently a lot of people buy a…

Why would it be good to free currency from government regulation? This is something I often see crypto advocates blow right past as if it's self explanatory, but I don't think it is. I like that the currency I use is managed by my government. Why should I want to switch?

Obviously the biggest one is concern over things like hyperinflation, which has happened in the real-world many times.

Or, not quite at hyperinflation, but your government is enacting policies based on MMT or similar and you are worried that this could hurt you (as a holder of the currency) in the long-run.

Or, maybe you're worried about governments being able to dictate what you are allowed to purchase with "their" money.

Or, maybe you want to send your money somewhere your government doesn't want you to send it (or their government doesn't want the other party to get it).

Obviously there is a lot more to cryptocurrency than just "not being issued by a government" as well though. There is general privacy benefits (Monero) or the promise of innovation if you have programmable money / contracts (Ethereum).

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#168

Post by crocodiletears »

camgunz wrote: post #121

The core feature of any cryptocurrency is "money w/o state regulation", but when you're talking about selling it for any major currency (Dollars, Euros, Sterling, Yen, RMB) guess what, you're regulated. There is no way around this, regulators are wise (more than wise, hypervigilant) to it. As a result, this stuff is just cumbersome currency that roasts the planet. No thank you.

I could be wrong, but isn't the point of Diem to create a jointly managed payment network that's auditable to its stakeholders?

Seems like a viable reason to create a cryptocurrency that isn't intended to bypass state regulations.

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#169

Post by rytill »

camgunz wrote: post #147
colordrops wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is there still so much of ignorance over cryptocurrency this far along after its inception? Just because you buy and sell gold with major currencies doesn't mean gold is regulated. Crypto isn't much different. If you can get it anonymously, you can move it anywhere you want as long as you stay on the blockchain. Once you leave the blockchain, you aren't dealing with crypto anymore. Once you sell gold you aren't d…

You're talking about a commodity, not a currency. No one walks around with gold nuggets (or jugs of milk, or bales of wheat) in their pocket because our economy doesn't use the barter system. The difference between cryptocurrencies and other commodities is that other commodities have intrinsic worth. You can drink milk, you can eat wheat. You can't do anything with cryptocurrency, it's just a long, meaningless number…

It’s just a long number with no intrinsic worth. Like money.

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#170

Post by fastball »

Spooky23 wrote: post #126
camgunz wrote: post #121

The core feature of any cryptocurrency is "money w/o state regulation", but when you're talking about selling it for any major currency (Dollars, Euros, Sterling, Yen, RMB) guess what, you're regulated. There is no way around this, regulators are wise (more than wise, hypervigilant) to it. As a result, this stuff is just cumbersome currency that roasts the planet. No thank you.

It functions like diamonds, real estate and some other commodities used to... medium of exchange for illegal transactions. It’s pretty obvious — the price spikes with the rise of certain internet grifts and wanes as they settle down.

Yep, you're right, people are definitely only using cryptocurrency for illegal transactions.
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