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Apple Silicon M1 Disruption

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Re: Apple Silicon M1 Disruption

#101

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

untog wrote: post #46
2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Loads of people didn’t think much of the iPhone when it came out either. No physical keyboard, other devices have large touch screens, no stylus, can’t copy and paste. Appreciating the iPhone is largely done in hindsight. Best not to make predictions too far into the future.

> Appreciating the iPhone is largely done in hindsight. I’m sorry but that’s definitely not true. Yes, there were a vocal minority of folks who said the iPhone was nothing special but the mass market response was huge and it was heralded as a huge deal by the vast majority. And to go back to my original point: there’s a difference between “this new invention allows you to do new things, but those things aren’t import…

My reaction to the M1 is the latter. It allows you to do the things you already do faster and cooler and it’s a big technological shift. But it isn’t going to change the way people use computers in the way the iPhone did.

I think the point is that they have a single unified platform now (or soon). I think MS was right to have the Surface run windows and build in touch to Windows. But that never really took off.

Now, if I’m not mistaken, the M1 is giving you full performance for a work day running off a battery. And you can run iOS apps on Big Sur.

I think Apple will pull off what MS couldn’t. Single platform, multiple form factors, all capable of running the same software because the hardware is literally the same. Without just shoving everything into a web browser, because native apps are almost always better. And Apple has all the pieces of the puzzle: desktop, laptops, tablets, phones.

Re: Apple Silicon M1 Disruption

#102

Post by jryle70 »

gamblor956 wrote: post #89
seppin wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the 1 week + i've had my Macbook Air M1, it's across the board better. This thing is amazing

Yes, compared to your prior Macbook I'm sure it was a revelation. A programmer friend loves his new M1, but he's also been an Apple user for decades. As a Windows user, testing out my friend's Macbook Air M1 was an underwhelming experience. I've had bigger performance boosts from adding more RAM or switching out HDs to SSDs, and a large part of the M1's performance "gains" can be attributed to the increased RAM on th…

How did you compare a Windows system with a Mac to conclude it was "an underwhelming experience"? were they similarly configured and running similar software?

> a large part of the M1's performance "gains" can be attributed to the increased RAM on the systems currently featuring the M1.

Not sure I understand your point. M1 systems have 8 or 16 GB RAM. There are no increased RAM compared to non-M1 Mac.

Re: Apple Silicon M1 Disruption

#103

Post by addajones »

CoconutPilot wrote: post #91

For a counter argument, I don't think M1 is going to disrupt anything. Its a great performer for sure, but its locked to a proprietary and closed ecosystem controlled by a single entity. Its a new direction for Apple in their laptop architecture, and a solid first step, but the raw performance is not up to the fastest from AMD and Intel, and it lacks the ability to upgrade any of its components. I get it, its a lapto…

It will disrupt. Intel and AMD chips aren’t on their first initial CPU release. Apple is with the M1. The future of CPU offerings from Apple looks very bright. An exciting time for computing, I’m looking forward to it.

Re: Apple Silicon M1 Disruption

#104

Post by neogodless »

addajones wrote: post #103
CoconutPilot wrote: post #91

For a counter argument, I don't think M1 is going to disrupt anything. Its a great performer for sure, but its locked to a proprietary and closed ecosystem controlled by a single entity. Its a new direction for Apple in their laptop architecture, and a solid first step, but the raw performance is not up to the fastest from AMD and Intel, and it lacks the ability to upgrade any of its components. I get it, its a lapto…

It will disrupt. Intel and AMD chips aren’t on their first initial CPU release. Apple is with the M1. The future of CPU offerings from Apple looks very bright. An exciting time for computing, I’m looking forward to it.

This is a strange argument, because the M1 is not Apple's first release. I believe that was the A5[0]

To be sure, the chart comparing Apple CPU performance over time in comparison to Intel is damning for Intel (and a reminder that this argument makes no sense.)

That doesn't mean it won't disrupt, but for it to disrupt, any last reason someone previously would not consider an Apple computer has to be removed.

* Absolute performance for high-end multiple CPU core workstations doing massive parallel processing

* AAA demanding games being played at 4K with ray-tracing and 60+ fps

* Freedom to repair and upgrade your own computer

* Absolutely no doubt that your software of choice will work as expected without troublesome workarounds

To be sure, lots of users don't care about anything on the list above, or for their rendering, gaming and software needs, they get what they need from an Apple computer. But the M1 does not change that.

Until about 3 years ago, Intel had the fastest laptop and desktop CPUs, and they were available regardless of your preferred OS. So few were choosing Windows or Linux merely because of hardware superiority. Now AMD is a better bet than Intel for Windows, and Apple Silicon is a better bet than Intel for MacOS.

And some people may have been on the fence before but are perfectly suited to switching to MacOS, and will happily do so to take advantage of the power and battery life of the M1.

But how big is that slice of pie?

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_A5

Re: Apple Silicon M1 Disruption

#106

Post by gameswithgo »

faitswulff wrote: post #42
trynewideas wrote: post #26

Since these keep floating up, I'm already exhausted with this specific rebuttal to Morehead's review: > As pointed out in John Gruber’s hard takedown of Moorhead’s piece, most of the problems he encountered were software problems, not M1 hardware issues. Morehead's allegiances and work are relevant biases, as are Gruber's. But Morehead's review wasn't of the M1 processor or architecture as a technology. It was a revi…

I think the reason it keeps coming up is that it is the most prominent bad review, but due to Moorhead’s allegiances, poor calls in the past, and eclectic selection of software, his negative review comes across as being in bad faith.

or maybe it just really is in bad faith?

Re: Apple Silicon M1 Disruption

#108

Post by hu3 »

addajones wrote: post #103
CoconutPilot wrote: post #91

For a counter argument, I don't think M1 is going to disrupt anything. Its a great performer for sure, but its locked to a proprietary and closed ecosystem controlled by a single entity. Its a new direction for Apple in their laptop architecture, and a solid first step, but the raw performance is not up to the fastest from AMD and Intel, and it lacks the ability to upgrade any of its components. I get it, its a lapto…

It will disrupt. Intel and AMD chips aren’t on their first initial CPU release. Apple is with the M1. The future of CPU offerings from Apple looks very bright. An exciting time for computing, I’m looking forward to it.

M1 is not a first. It's a scaled up evolution of their mobile CPU offering that started all the way back in 2013. Their Bionic line present on iPads was already quoted as being faster than some laptops.

And in 2016 they were already making ARM CPUs with Big and Little cores on the same package just like the M1. [1]

[1] https://i.imgur.com/ymTjo7Y.png

Re: Apple Silicon M1 Disruption

#109

Post by alwillis »

CoconutPilot wrote: post #91

For a counter argument, I don't think M1 is going to disrupt anything. Its a great performer for sure, but its locked to a proprietary and closed ecosystem controlled by a single entity. Its a new direction for Apple in their laptop architecture, and a solid first step, but the raw performance is not up to the fastest from AMD and Intel, and it lacks the ability to upgrade any of its components. I get it, its a lapto…

For a counter argument, I don't think M1 is going to disrupt anything. Its a great performer for sure, but its locked to a proprietary and closed ecosystem controlled by a single entity.

You could have said (and many did) the same thing about the iPhone in 2007 and it clearly disrupted the phone industry. It was only available on AT&T for its first few years but people had no problem switching carriers. The major incumbents of the time—Microsoft, Nokia, Palm, RIM, Motorola—are no longer in the smartphone business or are out of business as we knew them.

The M1 MacBook Pro outperforms virtually all other laptops in its price class, can drive multiple (up to 6) HDI displays, can run x86, ARM-native Mac apps and iOS/iPadOS apps. You can edit 8k video as if you were on a much more expensive device and the battery can last 20 hours. For many casual users (email, web, basic productivity apps), there are fewer reasons for them to not make the jump.

Its a new direction for Apple in their laptop architecture, and a solid first step, but the raw performance is not up to the fastest from AMD and Intel…

It's faster than all but the absolute latest from AMD and Intel, cost less and draws much less power. Those processors can only be gotten in high-end laptops while the M1 is in entry level products. None of them has the performance per watt and the battery life of the M1 Macs.

The mistake many HN folks make: with Apple, it's the complete product, not just one thing. Sure, the M1 is faster than 98% of laptops that shipped the previous 9 months (according to Apple's fine print) which is amazing for a first attempt. But when you consider the battery life, fit and finish of the design and the nice little extras (studio quality mics on the MacBook Pro), there's really nothing else that's objectively better.

People already in the Apple ecosystem will love M1, but it lacks a compelling reason to switch to Apple.

I've already seen many posts here on HN that people who either never owned a Mac or abandoned the Mac years ago have bought M1 laptops. Apple usually reports each quarter that about 50% of Mac buyers are new to the Mac; I don't expect that to change. And Apple had a record Mac quarter before the M1 shipped [1].

but unless M1 opens up to other designers and companies its a tangent in the great CPU race.

It's not a tangent; it's a shot across the bow of not only Intel and AMD, but the entire PC industry. Neither Intel or AMD can match Apple's performance per watt and Dell, Acer, HP, etc. can't match Apple's design prowess and bundled software, services and support.

Because Apple's designs the entire widget to work together, they can deliver a better experience and there are people who are willing to pay for that, especially when the starting place is it's really really fast.

Re: Apple Silicon M1 Disruption

#110

Post by cobookman »

gabereiser wrote: post #80
bee_rider wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The iPhone was a basically new form factor that over the course of the next 13 years (after trickling out to the lower priced Android phones), became the primary way that billions of people interact with technology. The M1 is a really good new processor. We've been doing really good new processors for the last couple decades. It's great to have more competition in the CPU space, which was seeming to stagnate, but not…

True, it’s not a new form factor. It doesn’t have that shiny “new thing” feeling. My Air looks like every other 2018+ air. What’s different is what you don’t see. Being able to code all day on battery and only using 18%. The CPU-core power to watt ratio is just unbelievable. I get it though, without the new form factor it lacks that defining moment. The moment came for me when I realized I wasn’t plugged in all day a…

It's not a new form factor...yet.

The implications from a chip this powerful, with its low-wattage, heat dissipation...will enable the next generation of laptop form factor.

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