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Apple Silicon M1 Disruption

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Re: Apple Silicon M1 Disruption

#31

Post by mepian »

oblio wrote: post #17
FullyFunctional wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lesson for all of us to not leap to conclusion. In the case of the Apple iPhone I didn't see it and only boarded the train by iPhone 4 (and honestly, I think it was about the right time). In the case of M1 I _did_ expect a revolution and frankly one I had been waiting for for decades (the true cost of x86 is finally exposed). I can't wait to see if Apple can keep up the momentum.

> the true cost of x86 is finally exposed They've reinvented x86 at least twice: microcode and then x86_64. I wouldn't bury x86 yet. Plus a good chunk of the M1 computing prowess is not even the CPU, it's the additional hardware such as the neural engine cores and such. This is something you could put next to a Sparc core, it's not ARM specific.

x86 used microcode from the beginning: https://www.reenigne.org/blog/8086-microcode-disassembled/

Re: Apple Silicon M1 Disruption

#32

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

untog wrote: post #14
gizmodo59 wrote: post #3

I have seen so many articles on HN in front page about M1 over the past few weeks. Like a curious child I read all of them because somewhere in me I want to believe there exists a possibility of a giant leap for Desktop/Laptop. Having tried it myself, I should say this is going to be remembered just like the iPhone in 2007.

I doubt that very much. The iPhone was a true revelation: in user interface, in form factor, in the things it allowed you to do. The M1 is amazing but it doesn’t compare. Performance (both raw and thermal) is a big boost but it’s not going to reinvent computing.

Loads of people didn’t think much of the iPhone when it came out either.

No physical keyboard, other devices have large touch screens, no stylus, can’t copy and paste. Appreciating the iPhone is largely done in hindsight.

Best not to make predictions too far into the future.

Re: Apple Silicon M1 Disruption

#33

Post by codeflo »

Is there already an in-depth analysis of the M1 by someone with a low-level perspective? I want to develop an intuition on why/where the M1 is fast. E.g. is it branch prediction, reordering, memory latency. Unfortunately, most articles don’t go any deeper than “seems to be optimized for macOS”.

Re: Apple Silicon M1 Disruption

#34

Post by amelius »

gizmodo59 wrote: post #3

I have seen so many articles on HN in front page about M1 over the past few weeks. Like a curious child I read all of them because somewhere in me I want to believe there exists a possibility of a giant leap for Desktop/Laptop. Having tried it myself, I should say this is going to be remembered just like the iPhone in 2007.

> I should say this is going to be remembered just like the iPhone in 2007.

I hope people will not forget about TSMC who made this all possible.

Re: Apple Silicon M1 Disruption

#36

Post by nullspace »

naderkhalil wrote: post #11

> Will Microsoft now offer an official Windows 10 on ARM that can run on M1 Macs?...This could create trouble in the x86 PC world. Or will Microsoft, less committed to Windows than it is to its applications running everywhere, be content to see Office and more run (and generate revenue) on M1 Macs…and how will HP, Asus, Dell and others react? This is just the beginning of a new competitive layout. Could this be good…

I was thinking about the same thing.

If the commitment of Microsoft is in question, there’s a good chance of increased resources by Dell, Asus etc towards Linux.

Re: Apple Silicon M1 Disruption

#37

Post by kergonath »

xenocratus wrote: post #5

> Now you got a big problem, because neither Intel, AMD, or Nvidia are going to license their intellectual property I keep seeing this line and wonder - "did people miss the news about Nvidia buying Arm?". Sure, there are still plenty of hurdles to pass until it's official, but take a look at the initial piece written by Nvidia about the acquisition: https://nvidianews.nvidia.com/news/nvidia-to-acquire-arm-for... Spe…

They have to say that, though, don’t they? They need to convince a bunch of regulators that their purchase of ARM won’t cause too much damage. They couldn’t really say that they would be going to choke a whole industry by dropping the licensing model, even if it were the case.

Re: Apple Silicon M1 Disruption

#38

Post by RantyDave »

oblio wrote: post #17
FullyFunctional wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lesson for all of us to not leap to conclusion. In the case of the Apple iPhone I didn't see it and only boarded the train by iPhone 4 (and honestly, I think it was about the right time). In the case of M1 I _did_ expect a revolution and frankly one I had been waiting for for decades (the true cost of x86 is finally exposed). I can't wait to see if Apple can keep up the momentum.

> the true cost of x86 is finally exposed They've reinvented x86 at least twice: microcode and then x86_64. I wouldn't bury x86 yet. Plus a good chunk of the M1 computing prowess is not even the CPU, it's the additional hardware such as the neural engine cores and such. This is something you could put next to a Sparc core, it's not ARM specific.

Nah, this is it for x86. The only relevant piece of x86 binary software is the Windows ecosystem ... and that runs on arm now. Everything else is either interpreted (Python, Ruby), JIT'ed (Java, C#) or can be compiled natively to arm anyway. All Apple have done is prove that it's possible.

Re: Apple Silicon M1 Disruption

#39

Post by phkahler »

Where are some benchmarks comparing M1 to the best x86 processors from AMD? Since M1 is only 4 big cores maybe it would be fair to compare it to the 4 core 8 thread APUs and not crush the poor thing with an 8 core version.

A1 is cool. Good for Apple, but it's not the computing miracle it's made out to be.

Re: Apple Silicon M1 Disruption

#40

Post by neogodless »

spideymans wrote: post #29
gizmodo59 wrote: post #3

I have seen so many articles on HN in front page about M1 over the past few weeks. Like a curious child I read all of them because somewhere in me I want to believe there exists a possibility of a giant leap for Desktop/Laptop. Having tried it myself, I should say this is going to be remembered just like the iPhone in 2007.

I think the M1 is more analogous to the release of the 64-bit A7 CPU. Which doesn’t diminish it’s importance at all. The A7 was the inflection point that had the competition scrambling [unsuccessfully] to catch up to Apple ever since.

It's also worth remembering that while it may have shifted the smartphone market (and certainly Apple tablets), competitors still exist, improving over time, remaining relevant. Would someone argue that Android is simply not an option as a smartphone for a very large portion of the smartphone market? No.

And likewise, competitors to Apple's laptops and workstations are very much going to continue to be relevant, and to improve and compete. The M1 has shown that power, battery life, and minimal heat production are more possible than ever. That doesn't mean end users will all suddenly drop everything and stop buying products from the competition. They'll just raise their expectations for future revisions.

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