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Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

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Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#341

Post by oblio »

fbelzile wrote: post #223
noelsusman wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it be good to free currency from government regulation? This is something I often see crypto advocates blow right past as if it's self explanatory, but I don't think it is. I like that the currency I use is managed by my government. Why should I want to switch?

I agree with you, but there are some people around the world that don't trust their governments. A use-case most people here would agree with is in the yellow economic circle in Hong Kong: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_economic_circle Using a cryptocurrency is kind of like a technological band-aid to a political problem. Viewed through the lens as a form of peaceful protest against the government, it makes sen…

It's a very niche use case, though. Especially for creating a new global currency, used by everyone.

And those people are probably screwed anyway, unfortunately for them. If a big government hates your guts... you're not going to make it.

Might be safer for them to buy gold and just bolt.

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#342

Post by shemnon42 »

davidgerard wrote: post #333
chodeboy wrote: post #29

Can someone give me a quick rundown of Facebook's involvement? I get that they are the driving force behind it but what does it mean in practice? Do they have any power over the currency and its flow? Is Facebook governing the currency? Are there privacy concerns and if so, how do manifest in practice? Is it tied to Facebook stock or something, if not then what's the point?

They started the whole thing, were the only member of the Libra Association (now Diem Association) for several months, and still fund the staff and almost all of the engineering effort. Diem is deeply and fundamentally a Facebook project.

Currently a deeply Facebook project, like Kubernetes was a deeply Google project until RedHat joined in. This rebranding and the association in general makes that kind of a transition smoother.

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#343

Post by x87678r »

jamesmehaffey wrote: post #217
flixic wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Today's Bitcoin's average transaction fee is $6.34. For "coffee shop purchases" that is horrendous. Ethereum is better, at $1.43, but still not usable for coffee. Only highly-centralized cryptocurrencies, such as Stellar, have reasonable transaction fees. I think for the time being it's meaningful to think of cryptocurrency transactions as stock purchases / fees to the stock exchange.

I agree with you that the fees for some of the cryptocurrency’s make them impractical, and this certainly will hinder mainstream adoption. I do not think that I will try to pay for coffee with some of my antique gold coins any time soon, but that does not render them any less valuable. bitcoin plays a similar role in the context of digital assets for the moment. It frustrates me when I read other comments here dismis…

I know what you're trying to say but 99.999% of people do not own antique gold coins, are you saying the same about bitcoin?

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#344

Post by whb07 »

smt88 wrote: post #335
whb07 wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hard to devalue a currency you don't control. which then leads to reigning in of the leviathan.

I don't know what makes you think the US would have no control over the value of any popular crypto. If it's being spent in the US, they have control. They can make it illegal, tax it to hell, or just start mining it themselves.

I don’t think you understand it then...

Let me know if they ever did stop music and video sharing, did RIAA lawsuits work? How’s that cute FBI logo at the start of movies working out?

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#345

Post by cloudinshape »

oblio wrote: post #340
cloudinshape wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the government will not always be on your side, as 2020 demonstrated so well what many peoples outside the US have know from experience for decades.

Who do you resort to if you get defrauded through blockchain currencies... ? The Trusty Libertarian Neighborhood Watch?

Why do you feel so much the need to blame someone else?

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#346

Post by x87678r »

tomp wrote: post #56

Ok, so let's focus on the underlying idea, without the "Facebook is trying to rebrand their evil brand" cruft. Basically, I think the underlying idea is valuable - low-cost, fast, reliable, accessible money transfers - clearly something missing right now in this world, even for the "global rich" (citizens of first-world countries), let alone for the "unbanked". It could even scale even more to a money store but that'…

> low-cost, fast, reliable, accessible money transfers - clearly something missing right now in this world

The reason it isn't free is that there are loads of anti-money laundering laws that require paperwork on both ends. Sure Cryptos avoid this problem, but just means it'll get regulated or banned.

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#347

Post by oblio »

dmantis wrote: post #239
camgunz wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't always agree w/ my government here in the US, but I do like that--while it's not a perfect process--as a democracy I can influence it. The reason it's illegal to buy certain things in the US (people, organs, drugs, assassinations) is that we all got together and thought people shouldn't do that. Many people disagree but, that's what voting is for. Subverting the will of a democratic people is... immoral? The…

You assume that government is good and prohibited uses are bad. But your gov banned wikileaks bank accounts in the past and that is the perfect example of the case when the gov is definitely is a malicious actor (while their behaviour perfectly rational from their side of things). Govs do war crimes, mass espionage and human rights violations. That should be addressed as well.

If you're assuming that you can work around an imperfect government, which you don't think can be fixed democratically, through cryptocurrency, especially for a core statehood domain, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you :-)

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#348

Post by oblio »

cloudinshape wrote: post #345
oblio wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who do you resort to if you get defrauded through blockchain currencies... ? The Trusty Libertarian Neighborhood Watch?

Why do you feel so much the need to blame someone else?

So the solution is "caveat emptor"?

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#349

Post by fwip »

tromp wrote: post #331
rubyn00bie wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they really don't. Uninformed opinions will argue this because they're just that... uninformed. I'm sorry but no one who has studied economics will believe this there's zero evidence to support the idea a low-level of inflation is bad. There's only crackpots and idiots who don't have economics degrees, or even enough math to understand the fucking equations (which aren't hard but also don't always provide intuiti…

> no one who has studied economics will believe this there's zero evidence to support the idea a low-level of inflation is bad. That's quite the number of negations you've got there. I assume you want to say that a mild inflation make economic sense, but I think you're actually saying the opposite due to the 3 negations (no one, zero evidence, bad).

I think it is two separate thoughts. > no one who has studied economics will believe this - there's zero evidence to support the idea a low-level of inflation is bad.

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#350

Post by fastball »

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #306
samatman wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Economists aren't scientists.

> Economists aren't scientists. How do you define scientist, and who else isn't included? Like, micro-economists do a lot of interesting experimental work that certainly seems like science. Macro-economics is pretty much entrail-reading because we fundamentally don't understand how the modern economy functions, and is massively political and hijacked by a variety of interests, but that's a subfield that even economis…

Scientists should have falsifiable theories, for starters.

Actually to my mind that is all you need for science: observe, make a falsifiable hypothesis, try to falsify your own hypothesis.

That is... not most economics.

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