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Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

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Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#331

Post by tromp »

rubyn00bie wrote: post #304
samatman wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opinions differ substantially on this point.

No, they really don't. Uninformed opinions will argue this because they're just that... uninformed. I'm sorry but no one who has studied economics will believe this there's zero evidence to support the idea a low-level of inflation is bad. There's only crackpots and idiots who don't have economics degrees, or even enough math to understand the fucking equations (which aren't hard but also don't always provide intuiti…

> no one who has studied economics will believe this there's zero evidence to support the idea a low-level of inflation is bad.

That's quite the number of negations you've got there. I assume you want to say that a mild inflation make economic sense, but I think you're actually saying the opposite due to the 3 negations (no one, zero evidence, bad).

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#332

Post by tromp »

samatman wrote: post #179
noelsusman wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it be good to free currency from government regulation? This is something I often see crypto advocates blow right past as if it's self explanatory, but I don't think it is. I like that the currency I use is managed by my government. Why should I want to switch?

The 2% annual debasement rate of modern state currencies would have been a massive crisis in the era of metals. Imagine a king putting 2% less silver in the coin, year over year. We're just used to it. But leave that aside, you said you like government-managed currency and I believe you. Venezuelans don't. The way I see it, what's stopping the EUR and USD from going down that spiral is momentum, rather than some law…

> Grin, to pick a cybercoin which has some interesting technical innovations, issues one coin per minute, forever.

With a 60 Grin block reward and 1 minute block interval, it's actually 1 Grin per second, forever.

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#333

Post by davidgerard »

chodeboy wrote: post #29

Can someone give me a quick rundown of Facebook's involvement? I get that they are the driving force behind it but what does it mean in practice? Do they have any power over the currency and its flow? Is Facebook governing the currency? Are there privacy concerns and if so, how do manifest in practice? Is it tied to Facebook stock or something, if not then what's the point?

They started the whole thing, were the only member of the Libra Association (now Diem Association) for several months, and still fund the staff and almost all of the engineering effort.

Diem is deeply and fundamentally a Facebook project.

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#334

Post by andylynch »

colordrops wrote: post #128
camgunz wrote: post #121

The core feature of any cryptocurrency is "money w/o state regulation", but when you're talking about selling it for any major currency (Dollars, Euros, Sterling, Yen, RMB) guess what, you're regulated. There is no way around this, regulators are wise (more than wise, hypervigilant) to it. As a result, this stuff is just cumbersome currency that roasts the planet. No thank you.

How is there still so much of ignorance over cryptocurrency this far along after its inception? Just because you buy and sell gold with major currencies doesn't mean gold is regulated. Crypto isn't much different. If you can get it anonymously, you can move it anywhere you want as long as you stay on the blockchain. Once you leave the blockchain, you aren't dealing with crypto anymore. Once you sell gold you aren't d…

Gold markets are most definitely regulated, especially if you’re doing any meaningful FX volume. And since we’re talking about crypto, it’s worth adding the gold mining tends to be too, perhaps more so.

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#335

Post by smt88 »

whb07 wrote: post #322
smt88 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does that have to do with crypto?

hard to devalue a currency you don't control. which then leads to reigning in of the leviathan.

I don't know what makes you think the US would have no control over the value of any popular crypto.

If it's being spent in the US, they have control. They can make it illegal, tax it to hell, or just start mining it themselves.

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#337

Post by oblio »

wpietri wrote: post #292
tomp wrote: post #56

Ok, so let's focus on the underlying idea, without the "Facebook is trying to rebrand their evil brand" cruft. Basically, I think the underlying idea is valuable - low-cost, fast, reliable, accessible money transfers - clearly something missing right now in this world, even for the "global rich" (citizens of first-world countries), let alone for the "unbanked". It could even scale even more to a money store but that'…

> Is there a reason this is tied to the blockchain? The only legitimate reason I can think of would be cynically drafting on the hype cycle. But I've been reading David Gerard's book Libra Shrugged [1] and it looks like the actual answer is that "blockchain" has a quasi-religious belief system built up around it, and the people involved are members of the faith. One of the stunning things for me about "blockchain" re…

> One of the stunning things for me about "blockchain" revolutionary hype is how long it has gone on without significant accomplishment.

I think that there is a lot more money in the world right now than 20 years ago and definitely than 400 years ago.

A lot of it is just dumb (people inheriting money or getting it for other reasons than intelligence or financial acumen: singers, athletes, etc.) and some it is exploratory/inherently risky (VC) or both. So a bubble can last much, much longer and be much, much bigger.

We're probably going to see more of these.

I guess at this point I should probably just say that I regret not being smart/connected enough to be at the collecting end of one of these hype trains :-)))

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#338

Post by oblio »

treve wrote: post #211
tzs wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Basically, I think the underlying idea is valuable - low-cost, fast, reliable, accessible money transfers - clearly something missing right now in this world, even for the "global rich" (citizens of first-world countries), let alone for the "unbanked". For most of the "banked" in the US, doesn't Zelle cover all that for transfers within the US?

It's still absurd that you need additional services just to do transfers. I can't understand why an IBAN-like system can't seem to get off the ground in the US.

I guess there's no/little money on these when you can sell higher cost alternative solutions.

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#339

Post by davidgerard »

baby wrote: post #291
davidgerard wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have declared that they will not access the data. However, Facebook makes extensive use of shadow profiles of people who aren't even Facebook customers. They could certainly add Diem blockchain data to those, as they will have access to said blockchain via Novi, their Diem wallet. David Marcus and Mark Zuckerberg have both stated that data from Novi will not go to the Facebook advertising engine. However, Zucker…

As I said elsewhere this is not related to Novi. Novi is just a wallet using DIEM, and will have its own users (like any wallet or bank or trading platform has). That being said, there is a lot of work being put in making sure that FB doesn't have access to Novi user data. Of course, sometimes one employee's mistake can lead to infringement of a claim, so to avoid that good frameworks have to be put into place.

What other Diem Association members have even announced plans to issue a wallet?

As I understand, that number is presently zero. (Please correct me if I'm wrong on this.) And unhosted wallets won't be allowed - all consumers will need to transact via a Diem Association member. So Diem usage really is 100% Novi for the known future.

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#340

Post by oblio »

cloudinshape wrote: post #328
noelsusman wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it be good to free currency from government regulation? This is something I often see crypto advocates blow right past as if it's self explanatory, but I don't think it is. I like that the currency I use is managed by my government. Why should I want to switch?

Because the government will not always be on your side, as 2020 demonstrated so well what many peoples outside the US have know from experience for decades.

Who do you resort to if you get defrauded through blockchain currencies... ?

The Trusty Libertarian Neighborhood Watch?

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