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Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

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Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#291

Post by baby »

davidgerard wrote: post #208
randall wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2) I don't believe so. 3) The hope is you don't have to use an intermediary coin.

They have declared that they will not access the data. However, Facebook makes extensive use of shadow profiles of people who aren't even Facebook customers. They could certainly add Diem blockchain data to those, as they will have access to said blockchain via Novi, their Diem wallet. David Marcus and Mark Zuckerberg have both stated that data from Novi will not go to the Facebook advertising engine. However, Zucker…

As I said elsewhere this is not related to Novi. Novi is just a wallet using DIEM, and will have its own users (like any wallet or bank or trading platform has).

That being said, there is a lot of work being put in making sure that FB doesn't have access to Novi user data. Of course, sometimes one employee's mistake can lead to infringement of a claim, so to avoid that good frameworks have to be put into place.

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#292

Post by wpietri »

tomp wrote: post #56

Ok, so let's focus on the underlying idea, without the "Facebook is trying to rebrand their evil brand" cruft. Basically, I think the underlying idea is valuable - low-cost, fast, reliable, accessible money transfers - clearly something missing right now in this world, even for the "global rich" (citizens of first-world countries), let alone for the "unbanked". It could even scale even more to a money store but that'…

> Is there a reason this is tied to the blockchain?

The only legitimate reason I can think of would be cynically drafting on the hype cycle. But I've been reading David Gerard's book Libra Shrugged [1] and it looks like the actual answer is that "blockchain" has a quasi-religious belief system built up around it, and the people involved are members of the faith.

One of the stunning things for me about "blockchain" revolutionary hype is how long it has gone on without significant accomplishment. It started only a bit after the iPhone, which has had a huge impact on things, including payments. It's hard now to imagine a world without the internet in one's pocket. But if every blockchain stopped working tomorrow, few would notice. Contrast this with M-Pesa [2], a different approach to digital money. It started at around the same time but has had huge uptake. A recent report in Kenya [3] says M-Pesa has 30 million accounts, which is approximately the number of people in Kenya age 15 or over. To me, that's what successful digital money looks like.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08M8DGKY4/ [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-Pesa [3] https://ca.go.ke/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Sector-Statistic...

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#293

Post by wpietri »

davidgerard wrote: post #112
tomp wrote: post #56

Ok, so let's focus on the underlying idea, without the "Facebook is trying to rebrand their evil brand" cruft. Basically, I think the underlying idea is valuable - low-cost, fast, reliable, accessible money transfers - clearly something missing right now in this world, even for the "global rich" (citizens of first-world countries), let alone for the "unbanked". It could even scale even more to a money store but that'…

The answer is: even if any of the above held, Facebook are doing it to: (1) build a giant sucking data-miner atop all consumer commerce; (2) print their own money in such quantities that governments can't tell them what to do any more; (3) establish themselves as providers of the digital identity standard for the world, so that you need to go through Facebook to use money at all. There are those who have proposed Lib…

For those unfamiliar, davidgerard wrote a great book on blockchain hype: https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/book/

And has recently come out with a book on Libra. I haven't finished it yet, but it's great so far: https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/libra/

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#294

Post by baby »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #43

The whole “unbanked” thing is really unconvincing, because there's no way Libra/Diem will be usable for people who don't have identity documents and the evidence needed for KYC/AML forms, and that excludes most unbanked people. As for international money transfers: TransferWise and the like are already providing better solutions in that space without forcing you to use Facebook Coins. Now you might say that mostly ca…

> and that excludes most unbanked people

I don't agree, my step parents (in Romania) are unbanked and they have ID documents. A lot of people are in a similar situation there. Yet they all have smart phones.

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#295

Post by baby »

joosters wrote: post #25
flixic wrote: post #19

Libra was interesting. With their basket of currencies and easily programmable contracts, it was a semi-unique project in crypto space. Over the months, their ambition has been cut a lot by regulators. No more basket of currencies, now just US Dollar. At this point I'm not sure there's any benefit to it being on the blockchain either.

Was there ever any benefit to using a blockchain - other than marketing BS, of course? It was always Facebook (or their chosen partners) who controlled the coin, so the blockchain was pointless - there never was any decentralized trust, as I understand it?

What would you use instead?

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#296

Post by [deleted] »

rglullis wrote: post #240
tomp wrote: post #56

Ok, so let's focus on the underlying idea, without the "Facebook is trying to rebrand their evil brand" cruft. Basically, I think the underlying idea is valuable - low-cost, fast, reliable, accessible money transfers - clearly something missing right now in this world, even for the "global rich" (citizens of first-world countries), let alone for the "unbanked". It could even scale even more to a money store but that'…

You just described Stellar.

[deleted]

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#297

Post by riffraff »

AsyncAwait wrote: post #220
grey-area wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK, I have low-cost, fast, reliable, accessible money transfers. Basic bank accounts are free, and come with reliable free instant transfers to any other UK bank. That may not be reality in all countries, but it is in many. That's quite a high bar for rival payment methods to clear, but I think the main problem for corporate currencies like this will be rivalry from government issuers. Governments jealously gu…

> In the UK, I have low-cost, fast, reliable, accessible money transfers. Basic bank accounts are free, and come with reliable free instant transfers to any other UK bank. As an EU citizen living in the UK, it boggles my mind that "EU Faster Payments" was not implemented as part of the eurozone, if not the EU as a whole. As far as I know there's nothing technically preventing this, anyone has an insight into why it i…

I regularly transfer money between three European countries with instant payments, it works just fine but not all banks have implemented it.

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#298

Post by samatman »

taffer wrote: post #280
samatman wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opinions differ substantially on this point.

This is like saying: "Opinions differ substantially as to whether man-made climate change is real" . Yes, opinions differ, but when all mainstream scientists agree that deflation is bad, saying that "opinions differ" is quite misleading.

Economists aren't scientists.

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#299

Post by Ericson2314 »

obilgic wrote: post #38
cblconfederate wrote: post #34

I don't think an interesting cryptocurrency will ever come out of the US , they have the dollar.

US has a culture that knows that resisting the change isn't way to stay as #1, and you better innovate and disrupt yourself. However, state's innovation might not end up being what crypto advocates are looking for.

> US has a culture that knows that resisting the change isn't way to stay as #1

Are you kidding? This is the country that avoids the Metric system remember. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Metric_America oops.

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#300

Post by riffraff »

pavlov wrote: post #118
tomp wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I agree. First of all, it's not "Europe" but rather "Euro-accounts" (so no cross-currency transfers). Also not that fast - don't work overnight, on the weekends, payments might take a day to arrive. I just checked - paying 10EUR from my UK account to the EUR area takes 2-4 days (I'd need to pay 15GBP for an "urgent" next- business -day transfer) (same rate as TransferWise) whereas if I want to send 10kEU…

The 250 GBP must be the exchange fee? If your account is in GBP and the destination is in EUR, the bank gets to charge you for the exchange. 2.5% is a typical rate. That's unfortunate, but is unrelated to the cost of transfer. Euro transfers have become instant and 24/7 thanks to the SEPA Instant Credit architecture: https://www.europeanpaymentscouncil.eu/what-we-do/sepa-insta... You can transfer up to 100k EUR in le…

TransferWise also supports instant SEPA payments. The first time I transferred money to my bank in a different country and I received immediate confirmation I was mindblown.
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