Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra • Hacker News Board

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#191

Post by cortesoft » Sun, Dec 06, 2020, 5:38 PM UTC

rytill wrote: post #169

camgunz wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're talking about a commodity, not a currency. No one walks around with gold nuggets (or jugs of milk, or bales of wheat) in their pocket because our economy doesn't use the barter system. The difference between cryptocurrencies and other commodities is that other commodities have intrinsic worth. You can drink milk, you can eat wheat. You can't do anything with cryptocurrency, it's just a long, meaningless number…

It’s just a long number with no intrinsic worth. Like money.

Being able to pay your taxes with it gives it some more worth than just numbers.

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#192

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Dec 06, 2020, 5:38 PM UTC

rytill wrote: post #183

toomuchtodo wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money is backed by a central bank that is accountable to a government body. Crypto is backed by speculation and tech bros (shorthand for the hyper technocratic libertarian).

Shared speculation is pretty powerful.

[deleted]

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#193

Post by jackric » Sun, Dec 06, 2020, 5:40 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #173

rytill wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s just a long number with no intrinsic worth. Like money.

Money is backed by a central bank that is accountable to a government body. Crypto is backed by speculation and tech bros (shorthand for the hyper technocratic libertarian).

Accountable to a government body with opaque motives and capture over its citizens. Crypto has inspectable source code and miners and coin holders can jump ship if shenanigans are perceived

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#194

Post by littlestymaar » Sun, Dec 06, 2020, 5:40 PM UTC

colordrops wrote: post #128

camgunz wrote: post #121

The core feature of any cryptocurrency is "money w/o state regulation", but when you're talking about selling it for any major currency (Dollars, Euros, Sterling, Yen, RMB) guess what, you're regulated. There is no way around this, regulators are wise (more than wise, hypervigilant) to it. As a result, this stuff is just cumbersome currency that roasts the planet. No thank you.

How is there still so much of ignorance over cryptocurrency this far along after its inception? Just because you buy and sell gold with major currencies doesn't mean gold is regulated. Crypto isn't much different. If you can get it anonymously, you can move it anywhere you want as long as you stay on the blockchain. Once you leave the blockchain, you aren't dealing with crypto anymore. Once you sell gold you aren't d…

If you ever try to cross any border custom with more than a certain amount of gold, you'd realize that it's more regulated than you think it is.

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#195

Post by alvarosevilla95 » Sun, Dec 06, 2020, 5:40 PM UTC

samatman wrote: post #163

alvarosevilla95 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but only if your suitcase will only open if unlocked by a cryptographically secure key and no one can open it through other methods. They can't steal the suitcase itself either. And you can instantly teleport the contents of your suitcase to an equivalent suitcase held by any other individual on the planet. And third parties can't arbitrarily devalue the contents of your suitcase by printing more of it.

The last part of this almost certainly doesn't apply to "Diem".

I'd argue none of the above apply to Diem actually. I'm definitely referring to traditional, actual blockchains

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#196

Post by rytill » Sun, Dec 06, 2020, 5:40 PM UTC

camgunz wrote: post #178

rytill wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s just a long number with no intrinsic worth. Like money.

If the US or EU (etc.) valued their goods and services in BTC, banked in BTC, built monetary and foreign policy around BTC then you would be correct. It is all meaningless, and that's the definition of fiat. What distinguishes one fiat from another is "do important people believe in it". There may come a day when that's true for cryptocurrencies, but that day is not today. Further, I doubt it ever will come, because…

I agree with the argument that it doesn’t make sense for the United States. Other countries using USD already don’t have control over monetary policy.

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#197

Post by shuringai » Sun, Dec 06, 2020, 5:41 PM UTC

camgunz wrote: post #174

fastball wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, the luddite approach, an age-old classic.

You can dismiss it as such, but can you really deny that: - Cryptocurrency uses tons of electricity - Climate change is real and super bad I would (obviously) rather have a livable Earth than cryptocurrency, and I don't think that's weird.

Las Vegas also has a shitton of electric waste, how about we start suddenly going green with that? How is it that people only care about green earth when the target is the smallest slice of the pie?

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#198

Post by tzs » Sun, Dec 06, 2020, 5:42 PM UTC

tomp wrote: post #56

Ok, so let's focus on the underlying idea, without the "Facebook is trying to rebrand their evil brand" cruft. Basically, I think the underlying idea is valuable - low-cost, fast, reliable, accessible money transfers - clearly something missing right now in this world, even for the "global rich" (citizens of first-world countries), let alone for the "unbanked". It could even scale even more to a money store but that'…

> Basically, I think the underlying idea is valuable - low-cost, fast, reliable, accessible money transfers - clearly something missing right now in this world, even for the "global rich" (citizens of first-world countries), let alone for the "unbanked".

For most of the "banked" in the US, doesn't Zelle cover all that for transfers within the US?

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#199

Post by randall » Sun, Dec 06, 2020, 5:45 PM UTC

tomp wrote: post #162

baby wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) think of it as a centralized database that needs replication, you’d be a bit worried if this central place got attacked, so then you need some gossip-based protocol in place to allow some users to police the system. Consensus is a simple one because it allows most users to trust that consensus was agreed on correctly, as opposed to systems like transparency protocols that require users to more willingly engage in…

2) Does Facebook (or any other for-profit company) get access to the data (now or ever in the future)? 3) So if I want to send money (from say GBP) to someone in Japan, what would happen? Is the FX exchange seamless or will I need to use some intermediary coin?

2) I don't believe so. 3) The hope is you don't have to use an intermediary coin.

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#200

Post by toomuchtodo » Sun, Dec 06, 2020, 5:45 PM UTC

jackric wrote: post #193

toomuchtodo wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money is backed by a central bank that is accountable to a government body. Crypto is backed by speculation and tech bros (shorthand for the hyper technocratic libertarian).

Accountable to a government body with opaque motives and capture over its citizens. Crypto has inspectable source code and miners and coin holders can jump ship if shenanigans are perceived

How’d that Ethereum DAO attack go? Some folks just decided to hard fork the chain. Much trust, such governance.

I’d elect for a suboptimal government over such mechanisms any day, which seems to be a global consensus when you observe the lack of volatility in reserve currency values.