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More than 1,200 Google workers condemn firing of AI scientist Timnit Gebru

theguardian.com

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Re: More than 1,200 Google workers condemn firing of AI scientist Timnit Gebru

#51

Post by claudeganon »

zartar wrote: post #26

I find the semi-regular condemnations from employees of big tech companies hollow. If you work for one of these companies and find their behavior unsavory, go work somewhere else - this is actually what might cause executives at these companies to reflect on how they might change course. The fact that most of these employees could easily get well paying (just not as _ridiculously well paying_) jobs elsewhere to me fe…

Or they could just actually unionize instead of this reactive outrage. It’s unlikely Gebru would have been fired under these circumstances if she had a union contract.

Re: More than 1,200 Google workers condemn firing of AI scientist Timnit Gebru

#52

Post by tester756 »

_y5hn wrote: post #19
kome wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This is America no one is stopping her from starting the next google and crushing google." aren't you tired of drinking from the ideological kool aid?

[flagged]

>consequences?

If he used his real name then you'd threaten him? talk shit about him on twitter? stalk him on fb? use this comment in order to discredit his other things?

You don't like people with different opinions, don't you?

Re: More than 1,200 Google workers condemn firing of AI scientist Timnit Gebru

#53

Post by bitcharmer »

paperdropper wrote: post #37
muglug wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether or not I agree with the conclusions, that’s exactly the sort of paper one might expect to be written by someone whose job title includes the words “ethics” and “AI”. I’m not sure what Google expected.

The other curious thing is, behind the pink-boxed redactions are the names of four other Google employees. I'm wondering why they haven't been reprimanded in the same way. At least, not that we know of.

Maybe unlike the hero of the story they refrained from making racist, misandric remarks about their bosses on Twitter?

Re: More than 1,200 Google workers condemn firing of AI scientist Timnit Gebru

#54

Post by [deleted] »

ystad wrote: post #36
dmarchand90 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the subtle, yet important, difference is that she said she would quit by a certain date and they terminated her immediately. Given her role is likely just for PR it seems rather foolish not to at least give her two weeks notice or something.

What's the point of the two week notice in this case?

[deleted]

Re: More than 1,200 Google workers condemn firing of AI scientist Timnit Gebru

#55

Post by _y5hn »

tantalor wrote: post #38
claudeganon wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if you don’t do what your boss says at a job, even if you disagree, your boss can fire you, and this is good. But if you tell your boss that they should do something or you’ll quit, this is bad and makes you unemployable. You realize that this is just an argument that whoever is in a position of authority over you is right by virtue of having that authority?

It's called "insubordination".

Is insubordination to have a different opinion, and then offer paths to agreement between professionals?

Is insubordination to represent your responsibility area, as Ethical AI Researcher?

Is insubordination to send an email in order to establish dialogue around matters of disagreement between professionals?

Re: More than 1,200 Google workers condemn firing of AI scientist Timnit Gebru

#56

Post by pontus »

dmarchand90 wrote: post #18
miked85 wrote: post #13

She gave her employer an ultimatum, threatening to quit if she didn't get her way. They called her bluff. I don't see how that is the same as being fired. At that point she was on her way out, one way or another; most employers would rather not work with people like this.

I think the subtle, yet important, difference is that she said she would quit by a certain date and they terminated her immediately. Given her role is likely just for PR it seems rather foolish not to at least give her two weeks notice or something.

You can't hand in your resignation effective at a future date. That's not how it works. If you resign, you resign. It's then up to the employer whether or not to hold you to whatever notice period is set out in your contract. Many places will not do so and release you effective immediately.

Of course, if you leave on good terms, your superiors might look at you kindly and work with you to meet not just their needs, but also your needs. That's why it pays to be humble and generous in your interactions with other people.

Re: More than 1,200 Google workers condemn firing of AI scientist Timnit Gebru

#57

Post by InTheArena »

Google is an company that demands extraordinarily high ideological conformance from its workers. Unfortunately for Google it new longer controls the exact specification of what is and is not acceptable thought at Google, and much like the French revolution it’s being pushed into directions that is management may or may not agree with.

What should be a fairly reasonable question – is this person a good employee or not is immediately contaminated by questions they have nothing to do with job performance.

Re: More than 1,200 Google workers condemn firing of AI scientist Timnit Gebru

#58

Post by geofft »

zartar wrote: post #26

I find the semi-regular condemnations from employees of big tech companies hollow. If you work for one of these companies and find their behavior unsavory, go work somewhere else - this is actually what might cause executives at these companies to reflect on how they might change course. The fact that most of these employees could easily get well paying (just not as _ridiculously well paying_) jobs elsewhere to me fe…

If their goal is to promote savory behavior, isn't it beneficial to have an internal voice trying to guide the company's direction?

There is no shortage of engineers who would happily take a job at Google. If the folks raising concerns decided to all leave, isn't the net result that Google would operate much as it does today (maybe a little bit slower to get products to market) but without any internal check on its behavior?

And since the issue under dispute here is AI ethics, shouldn't we the non-Googlers want to make sure people willing to voice concern about unethical behavior remain at Google?

Re: More than 1,200 Google workers condemn firing of AI scientist Timnit Gebru

#60

Post by tinalumfoil »

zartar wrote: post #26

I find the semi-regular condemnations from employees of big tech companies hollow. If you work for one of these companies and find their behavior unsavory, go work somewhere else - this is actually what might cause executives at these companies to reflect on how they might change course. The fact that most of these employees could easily get well paying (just not as _ridiculously well paying_) jobs elsewhere to me fe…

> they are looking to assuage their conscious through statements like these

Statements like these still put pressure on Google. It's possible to care enough to say something, without caring enough to go beyond talk, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's all performative.

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