Earlier quoted context omitted.
I still prefer DoH giving "exclusive" access to resolvers, because the alternative is sending that data in plaintext for everyone along the path to read?
If your ISP is large enough it is only sent to ISP's name server which probably has everything you need cached, and if it isn't it might blend in with other queries. And your ISP can sniff SNI or guess target domains from target IPs already.
72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings
541–550 of 673 posts
Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings
#542This isn't difficult: TVs should not be "smart". TVs should be incredibly dumb. They should be screens for displaying stuff. That's it. Nothing else. No network connection of any kind, no apps, no software beyond that necessary to do basic setup of how that screen works: brightness, input selection, etc.
Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings
#543Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings
#544Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is all a result of consumer preference -- dumb TVs were once the majority of the market. Smart TVs have taken over because people prefer them. Regulation should not be used to override clearly demonstrated consumer preferences or to force companies to produce products that few people want.
Regulation should intervene when smart tvs come with non-obvious downsides like data collection. Consumers don't get informed and have no possibility of making an informed choice here.
The first thing we need to do to have productive conversations about privacy with non-technical people is to stop pretending they are ignorant or unable to understand trade-offs. People know that their online activity is tracked. They know that their Alexa devices record their conversations. All of this has been on the news enough times that you'd need to be living in a cave to be unaware of it.
People know this, and they have chosen to purchase these devices anyway. Maybe it's not because they are stupid and need the state to protect them -- maybe they are capable of evaluating trade-offs and their choices ought not to be second-guessed by people who think they know better.
Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings
#545Earlier quoted context omitted.
They’re more expensive because they need to make up the lost revenue from advertising and the likes. Or something like that. Of course, there’s also the simple thing of “enterprise stuff costs more for no reason.”
> They’re more expensive because they need to make up the lost revenue from advertising If that is the case, shouldn't the product then be labeled that part of the price is subsidized by advertisement so that in a free market customers can make informed decisions about what products they buy and under what conditions? Otherwise there is a huge risk that manufacturers that add such hidden drawbacks can unfairly out co…
Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings
#546Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't know-- plug a $30 Chromecast or Roku into the back and keep going?
Exactly, and it will be just as easy to use. Why bother with the "convenience" in the first place? Why was all the time wasted designing and producing the built-in stuff in the first place? Why make more stuff to maintain for no gain? When the built-in stuff breaks it will either get in the way or stop the thing from working all together. Why? Just why? There has been no sane answer given to that simple question sinc…
Decoding video is not any significant additional BOM cost (mostly just the network interface), and it is more convenient and nice for a significant fraction of users.... plus it allows the manufacturer access to additional revenue streams (e.g. getting some pennies for bundling Netflix).
Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings
#547Earlier quoted context omitted.
I own several smart TVs but use none of the smart functionality. They don’t even have internet. TV makers are horrible software developers, for the same reasons that mobile manufacturers were horrible mobile OS developers until Android came along. We have similar solutions for televisions in the form of Apple TV and Chromecast. I honestly feel I’m wasting my money when I’m buying a smart TV these days, but you just n…
We have an LG with WebOS. Quite good actually, the remote is also very good, the browser is good, the apps work well.
Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings
#548Earlier quoted context omitted.
Currently we’re using both Google and Cloudflare’s DNS, providing resiliency against one or the other being unavailable, but I’m looking at potentially using our own resolvers just to reduce the amount of data being exposed to third parties.
So the company you work for will be fighting for my privacy? I'd rather have a PiHole doing that. These devices do usually have an UI. Why not provide some options to the user? Let him choose among different types and providers. I'd set mine to use the one provided by DHCP or enter the address of my resolver manually.
In my experience, product design is generally done with a well-meaning attempt to protect the average user from themselves. People who can and do manage their own networks in sophisticated ways are, unfortunately, far less common than people who have no idea that their ISP fscks with DNS lookups.
Personally, I'd bury this setting pretty deep in an advanced-usage-only tab and behind a notice SCREAMING about how using these settings is unsupported. And then tell support staff that they are not obligated to support whatever crazy configurations people cook up for their home networks.
I understand not doing it at all. A few people will complain, but the number of people who will refuse to buy a TV because it doesn't play nice with their pihole is almost certainly too small to register on any material financial statement, and attempting to please them will generally run into some other point they are unwilling to budge on. The number of people who screw up an advanced setting they don't understand will show up in support costs.
Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings
#549Earlier quoted context omitted.
That isn’t really possible, though: CDNs mean that blocking by IP just doesn’t work. The most effective method I’ve found is transparently redirecting all traffic on port 53 to a DNS server I control. DoH means that I might as well setup a transparent HTTPS proxy.
"That isn’t really possible, though: CDNs mean that blocking by IP just doesn’t work. The most effective method I’ve found is transparently redirecting all traffic on port 53 to a DNS server I control. DoH means that I might as well setup a transparent HTTPS proxy." This is a very good point and I am dealing with this myself on my home networks. Like any household/family we have some number of dubious/untrusted devic…
Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings
#550Earlier quoted context omitted.
DoH absolutely can get network filtering: if I block port 53 outbound to control DNS queries within my network, DoH (and other tunneling technologies) is bypassing my network filtering of DNS.
Network filtering means blocking traffic at the network level. Trying to use DNS for this leaves you trusting the client - and there are decades of precedent for clients bypassing that for various reasons, such as this post shows. The solution is to start doing network filtering: if you block packets to unapproved servers, you can actually stop this. You’ll need to run your own proxy, of course, but that’s always bee…