311–320 of 364 posts
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Then graduate, and major in something that will help you get a job. I needed loans, and I made good decisions with my education, and I graduated -- should that opportunity have been taken away from me because other people did not handle it well?
Didn’t the OP do those things and still end up homeless?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
There wouldn't be so much contempt for the homeless in California if they weren't allowed throw used needles or defecate everywhere.
To be clear, I'm not blaming the homeless or anything. My point is that the middle and working class hang out on the streets because they can't afford to spend their weekends in Monterey. Now they don't even have the streets. Blaming them for not having empathy is insensitive.
But the persistent pattern has been to use prisons and jails for the homeless until there is an outcry. Then there is a cessation of incarceration and a turning into the streets. This is followed by conflict from homeless and homes cohabitating. Once frustration builds to a fever we return to authoritarian treatment of the homeless.
All the while it remains unacceptable to try any other remedy because they might engender moral hazard or encourage immoral behavior.
Our society is like the man who repeatedly trips over his shoe laces because he cannot learn to tie his shoes but who refuses velcro on the principle that he ought to be able to learn to tie them.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Perhaps a bit more that the homeless pose complex considerations. Are they someone who had bad luck or someone who actively destroyed everything around themselves? If you help them will you waste your energy and in the end hurt them or will it actual assist? Will they be angry with you or even attack because it would be so easy for you to help a lot but you don't? Self judgement over not immediately helping, self lim…
No one deserves to be homeless, certainly not deeply.
Imagine we live in a world where everyone is issued housing. To make that more sustainable, we create a lot of group housing. Now imagine that someone in that group housing gets it in their mind that it would make them a YouTube star to burn their house down live. They succeed in their arson and burn their house and the house of all those around them to the ground.
This person doesn't deserve to be without a home at least for a little while?
[Edit
I forgot an even more important class of individuals... The homeless we refer to as hobos (aka the intentional homeless population who choose it as a lifestyle where they are freed from the demands of society and in turn be undemanding upon society). Do not these people deserve to have their homelessness respected? They are a small portion of the population but it seems a valid life strategy and I have had a conversation with the man who described his homelessness in this way and claimed to have friends who felt similarly. Reduce your expenditures sufficiently and it takes very little investment income to have a sustainable life of no obligations. The ethics of economic rents aside.
]
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've worked for an organization helping homeless. We eg organized a worldwide soccer tournament https://homelessworldcup.org/ and are selling a news paper distributed by homeless people. Most homeless in western european countries come either from losing their job and having drug problems, or losing their wifes and thereby homes. The many eastern homeless cross the borders because they can live much better by begging…
What’s the point, from your point of view, of the homeless newspapers? To me it’s always seemed like mostly a way to regulate begging, and also to let both parties pretend it isn’t begging. And in the best case maybe it’s therapeutic for people to write for them. But it doesn’t seem like anyone reads these, and I wonder, are the other effects worth the cost / effort?
They have to buy all the papers they are distributing in advance. It's a financial risk. But a good income, if you've got a good location.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
And taking on massive student loan debt (also government subsidized) that you spend the majority of your adult lifetime paying off is only true for a few decades at the end of the 20th and beginning of the 21st century. I don't know why you're married to this concept as the end-all, be-all only option for education financing, especially when there is an endless flood of people saying how it personally harmed them. Th…
> And taking on massive student loan debt (also government subsidized) that you spend the majority of your adult lifetime paying off is only true for a few decades at the end of the 20th and beginning of the 21st century. How much do you honestly think the average student takes on? What about the median? You mentioned $40k/yr to learn Hamlet. The figures I am looking up show less than $30k total over 4 years of educa…
The median entry level salary is $41k. That means the average student is coming out of college owing 75% of their income. That is ridiculous.
According to this [1] the average payment is $393. If you're making $41k, that's $3416 per month gross, maybe $2300 after taxes and 401k contributions. Good luck finding an apartment in a city with any jobs for less than $1k per month. That leaves you $1300, with a $393 monthly payment you're spending about 30% of your monthly disposable income just to service debt. That leaves $800 for food, utilities, transportation, saving, going out with friends and having some semblance of a social life, dating.
It's not impossible, but don't pretend a nearly $400/month payment is not huge burden for someone in that situation. If they're smart and careful, yeah, they can manage it, but if not, or if they have some bad luck, get sick, any sort of financial trouble and they're suddenly in a huge hole, with no savings and an inescapable debt. The forbearance programs are a joke. Fees and interest continue to accrue and people come out of them owing double what they did when they went in.
You can't say "Oh it's just a Camry!" no sane person would recommend that anyone take out a car loan for 75% of their annual income.
And that's assuming they even finish school and get a median level job. It's the median, so 50% of people are earning less and are even worse off.
There are knock-on effects to the rest of the economy. People are delaying buying houses (if they can ever afford to), having kids. They can't afford to move or take risks, start businesses. What is it going to look like in 20 or 30 years when an entire generation has grown up stunted by this burden?
[1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackfriedman/2020/02/03/student...
Earlier quoted context omitted.
To be clear, I'm not blaming the homeless or anything. My point is that the middle and working class hang out on the streets because they can't afford to spend their weekends in Monterey. Now they don't even have the streets. Blaming them for not having empathy is insensitive.
Who's spending their weekends in Monterey? I never said there wasn't any reason for conflict. I can see how feces and needles in the street might engender momentary disgust. But a brief comparative examination of one's lot in life should be enough to turn that disgust toward pity and gratitude rather than contempt. But the persistent pattern has been to use prisons and jails for the homeless until there is an outcry.…
If you're a cook who wants to take a break from your 6 flatmates by taking a walk outside, a clean sidewalk is a much bigger deal. When you hear liberals are spending more money every year on the homeless and you see more needles on ground. Of course, you're going to harbor some resentment towards the homeless, even if you rationally know it's not their fault. It's not that they're simply ignorant or lack empathy.
You raise a good point about the cycle of homelessness policy though.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is exactly my thought while I was reading the text. I live in Brazil and while we certainly have homeless and poverty here, this specific situation of someone with skill and education becoming homeless is something ultra rare, to te point that I never saw, hears or read of anyone in this situation. Even very modest people earning little money are able to get a roof over their heads. The usual case of homelessnes…
One thing I notice about developing countries that is basically non-existent in the US is tenement housing. In a lot of counties you can get a tiny “apartment” where it’s enough to sleep out of the rain and lock up your possessions. The “minimum housing” is actually not that expensive. These places are long gone in the US, because of fire code reasons, local regulations, etc. The minimum housing in many areas that ha…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
These dress codes are necessary, but not sufficient, for being a member of the upper class.
What's described isn't a dress code, it's 'not being a chav', essentially. It's necessary, but not sufficient, for something very far from 'upper class'.
A thing to remember though is that the further away from a social class you are, the less you know about its culture. I suspect that the styling cues she's talking about would be instantly noticeable to other people from the same class, whereas lowly plebs like you and me would never notice, or care.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Of course treatment is better, but privileged Californians see the state "coercing" an addict to go to rehab as evil as well. That's why the hundreds of millions of dollars spent on homelessness rarely goes to the people who need it most.
Genuinely asking, how much more does California spends on homelessness per capita than the average state? What services are offered that aren't offered elsewhere? If these services aren't reaching people where is the money going instead?
https://sf.curbed.com/2019/12/19/21027974/san-francisco-home...