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This is Real, That's Not

streetlifesolutions.blogspot.com

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Re: This is Real, That's Not

#31
post #19
post #14

> Growing up, I kind of thought "Most people are just nice." I had no means to figure out how much was natural charm, how much was me dressing well... > Being homeless taught me that, no, most people absolutely are not just nice. I know this will get downvoted but AFAIK most people see homeless people themselves as "not nice" as in "it's not nice to foist your problems on the rest of us", "it's not nice not to take r…

You will most certainly get donwvoted for it. That said, for people who might think of homeless as "not nice", consider the fraction that are truly problematic and the ones that you might see around, but not really doing anything wrong. The latter group is a lot less memorable, but I'd wager much larger than the former.

[deleted]

Re: This is Real, That's Not

#32
Interesting writing and perspective, though something about it leaves me feeling a bit uneasy. I think it's the amount of mind reading that the author projects on everyone. The author writes as if she understands other people better than they understand themselves. Everyone gets taken down a notch with some mind reading from the author, such as the forum member who had "mommy issues" to the conclusion that the primary reason MetaFilter users disliked her was that she "scared the hell out of them" and the assumption that others read her as upper class because she wore a t-shirt and sweatpants.

The mind reading extends all the way to the reader, with a veiled suggestion that the author's own mental models are superior to the reader's "broken" mental models:

> I encourage you to see this as a heavy dose of reality concerning where your mental models are broken. The only cure for what ails you is to start getting over your delusions and start adjusting your mental models to come up with a more accurate understanding of reality.

There are some interesting points in this writing, along with some thought-provoking perspectives on the nature of homelessness in America.

Re: This is Real, That's Not

#33
post #14

> Growing up, I kind of thought "Most people are just nice." I had no means to figure out how much was natural charm, how much was me dressing well... > Being homeless taught me that, no, most people absolutely are not just nice. I know this will get downvoted but AFAIK most people see homeless people themselves as "not nice" as in "it's not nice to foist your problems on the rest of us", "it's not nice not to take r…

Perhaps a bit more that the homeless pose complex considerations. Are they someone who had bad luck or someone who actively destroyed everything around themselves? If you help them will you waste your energy and in the end hurt them or will it actual assist? Will they be angry with you or even attack because it would be so easy for you to help a lot but you don't?

Self judgement over not immediately helping, self limitations in our faces (many of us are closer to homelessness than stability), guilt over not donating more, sadness over our judgments of the homeless, fear over becoming homeless, discomfort with smells or ideas of correlated behaviors, pity, incomplete information... the list of sincere challenges goes on and on.

I've got a sister who I love but deeply deserved to be homeless after hurting and spreading ruin on everyone around herself for decades. Anything you did to help she would use to hurt herself and others more. Most down and out people are not her. For those who had a bad circumstance, a leg up has additive economic benefit and benefits us all. Most safety net services are about being ready to support those who are ready to do exactly what you suggest. Many of the rest are there to help them survive to getting to that place.

Your final statement seems so zero sum. Our society exists because we find ways to make each other's efforts more productive and effective than they otherwise would be. We're all better off if being better off is scaled. There are defectors but also controls in place.

Re: This is Real, That's Not

#34
post #14

> Growing up, I kind of thought "Most people are just nice." I had no means to figure out how much was natural charm, how much was me dressing well... > Being homeless taught me that, no, most people absolutely are not just nice. I know this will get downvoted but AFAIK most people see homeless people themselves as "not nice" as in "it's not nice to foist your problems on the rest of us", "it's not nice not to take r…

Yh, everything you’ve stated is incorrect. We all live in a society, homeless people included.

If everyone has to truly fend for themselves, why should anyone follow the rules? Who’s to stop people from taking whatever they want? And before you state that policing will force them to, who will force the police?

So to answer the question you never asked, yes homeless deserve help just for existing, not for their sake but for our. So that their bodies don’t become vectors for disease, so that their kids don’t end up the next generation of criminals and so that we can go to shops without being afraid.

Re: This is Real, That's Not

#35
post #25
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree It's such a crazy statement. If going to the supermarket and buying whatever you want doesn't seem like a crazy luxury, you've got a 1% station only perspective.

I believe the threshold for the top 1% is around $10 million in net worth excluding primary residence. Being able to buy whatever you want at the super market is probably a top 25% of the US perspective if not more.

> The top 1% earned an average of $515,371 while the annual income for the average taxpayer was $41,740.

> The minimum net worth of the top 1% was roughly $10.4 million, according to Forbes. The top 10%, on the other hand, has a net worth of about $1.2 million.

[https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/1212/average-net...]

Re: This is Real, That's Not

#36
post #9

Since it's not spelled out in the article, what is a better mental model for how the world works?

The answer to that depends on what is wrong with the mental models of the individual in question. But I will suggest these two ideas as a rebuttal for some things I see as common errors in thinking: A college degree doesn't guarantee a real career with a good income and financial security. Being "good with money" can help a whole lot, but only if you first have some money. It fixes nothing if there is no money to wor…

> Being "good with money" [...] fixes nothing if there is no money to work with

To expand upon that accurate point: Having little to no money can hone your money skills to a razor's edge, because staying on that edge is how you eat.

Re: This is Real, That's Not

#37
post #6

As I read the post, especially the references to Metafilter in combination with a lesson about homelessness, I thought to myself, “This sounds like DoreenMichele.” I press the back button and, see it is submitted by them. I press the forward button and scroll to the top and it was written by them. It’s a small world.

> I thought to myself, “This sounds like DoreenMichele.”

That is hilarious. Mine was “I wonder what DoreenMichele has to say about this?”

Re: This is Real, That's Not

#38
post #25
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree It's such a crazy statement. If going to the supermarket and buying whatever you want doesn't seem like a crazy luxury, you've got a 1% station only perspective.

I believe the threshold for the top 1% is around $10 million in net worth excluding primary residence. Being able to buy whatever you want at the super market is probably a top 25% of the US perspective if not more.

Maybe. As a rough estimate I'd place it closer to the top 10% of the US. The 1% threshold is around $500k, whereas the 10% threshold is around $100k, which is pretty luxurious most places in the US (confounded by the fact that higher CoL areas have higher incomes).

On the other end of the spectrum, 50-70% of US families were living paycheck to paycheck even before covid, so I'd be moderately surprised if the top 25% could afford whatever they wanted at the supermarket.

Re: This is Real, That's Not

#39
post #4

Fantastic read! Always remember that "money doesn't buy happiness" is the shibboleth for people who always had money. Bring that up next time someone says it. Fun reaction guaranteed. I like to follow it up with my favorite slavic saying: "Sure money won't make you happy, but crying in a Ferrari is much nicer than on the bus"

When I hear "Money doesn't buy happiness" my internal response is always "but poverty can ensure misery"

Another one: "Money doesn't buy happiness - but it solves 99% of the problems that make you unhappy." - GSElevator on Twitter

Re: This is Real, That's Not

#40
DoreenMichele, one of the few people I can call a true realist in this world.

Barring the sexually-violent upbringing, our journeys have been very similar -- yet, the models ingrained into our psyches, different.

I feel it's a matter of temperament, how we look at these things.

Some are predisposed to be "glass half full" or "glass half empty," on an infinitesimally-parted scale.

I believe the most influential of these is: "I'm right, and everyone else is wrong" vs. "I'm wrong, and everyone else is right."

Or "I must learn how to make others see my way" vs. "I must become as others see me."

It's difficult to par it down to an intuitive phrase, but it's essentially whether or not you give in to the "pressures" of the world, or continue to rebel against them.

Whether or not you want to drink the Kool-Aid or sell your own.

At the end of the day, everything around us -- all its meaning, and the way our neurophysiology has categorized it -- is an illusion; it's completely made up.

You can believe whatever you wish to believe, so long as it's been registered before, in some way, shape, or form.

The comments in this thread, and the prevailing zeitgeist that being homeless is some great tragedy is one prime example.

I believe it's not.

Suffering or the lack thereof, is pointless. At its core, it's simply a heuristic your genetics have supplied you with, to make better certain you will survive and reproduce. Like any other heuristic (hunger, thirst, perhaps even suffocation), it can be overriden with enough conviction; whether you should or should not, is another matter.

I'm reminded of Pavlov's dogs. The more you resist against being broken, the harder it will be to bounce back when you do.

So, in a Zen Buddhist sort of way, let go -- it's unimaginably freeing.

For those of more stable temperaments, let the local fire department burn down your house for training, along with all of your belongings inside. I assure you, the results will be splendid; and all that baggage you've carried around -- material, and otherwise -- simply vanishes.

Poof; gone!

You have no past any more. There is nothing left to tie your sense of self down, and you're free to decide to be whatever you wish -- with the aforementioned caveat in mind.

Surviving great suffering makes the less trivial in comparison; so too does facing the fear of death make all others disappear.

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