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EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

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Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#321

Post by mewpmewp2 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #300
tzs wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I check email and sometimes answer when on vacation, because often 10 minutes spent addressing a small issue while I'm away prevents several days or a week or two of dealing with a huge issue when I get back. I'm the guy who if something messes up has to go through the databases trying to figure out what data is incorrect, and goes through logs and reports to try to infer what the data should be, and then figure out…

That's a management issue of having no redundancy for someone performing something so crucial. If you're that crucial to operations, then you should be paid extremely lavishly, or be the owner, otherwise you're getting the short end of the stick.

Sometimes this type of redundancy would mean taking 2-3x the time to do some simple tasks.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#322

Post by mewpmewp2 »

skohan wrote: post #246
vfc1 wrote: post #106

You got to admit that the EU at least has the courage to take some controversial measures in the best interest of their people. I can't see this soon enough, I have family that answer emails in vacation all the time, that get phone calls like its nothing. I know people that connect everyday from home to the office network to work one or two hours (extra) otherwise it's impossible to keep up with the workload. Most ma…

I spent part of my career working in the US, and now I work in Germany, and I can say the labor laws make a huge difference. Some would say this type of law hampers innovation, but at some level if there is not a basic fair playing field set for everyone, there will always be the incentive for some to over-work to get ahead.

I'm afraid this type of law will decrease salaries in Europe compared to US.

For instance I work at an international company and I already get paid 2-3x less than same level engineers in US. I feel like this would increase the gap even more.

And I'd prefer to have the option to over-achieve if this is what I choose to do with my life.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#323

Post by SuoDuanDao »

texasbigdata wrote: post #231
Hamuko wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There’s no such this as “overtime” in most salaried jobs though. You’re paid just for being an employee, not for hours worked. If there's no concept of overtime in most salaried jobs, there's a problem with your country as well. I'm a salaried, full-time employee and I'm paid to work 37.5 hours a week, no more, no less. And the collective agreement for IT services industry (which is what concerns me as a developer)…

You guys unioned as a cross company group of 1 (or several closely related) functional roles? That’s super interesting! Do any entry level people NOT accept membership to the union or undercut in any way? Do you require your employee to be a “union” shop to work there? I think it’s beautiful your vacation hours are set out, etc. It seems like there could be some issues if every vertical had one of these (“oh no, the…

I think part of the reason this works so well in Europe is because guilds have been around for a long time, and there's a sense in which they also look out for the quality of work their members put out. There's an implication of providing training to junior members and serving the public that give a depth to the organisation beyond a charter of 'we negotiate for the highest pay the market will bear'

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#324

Post by skohan »

mewpmewp2 wrote: post #322
skohan wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent part of my career working in the US, and now I work in Germany, and I can say the labor laws make a huge difference. Some would say this type of law hampers innovation, but at some level if there is not a basic fair playing field set for everyone, there will always be the incentive for some to over-work to get ahead.

I'm afraid this type of law will decrease salaries in Europe compared to US. For instance I work at an international company and I already get paid 2-3x less than same level engineers in US. I feel like this would increase the gap even more. And I'd prefer to have the option to over-achieve if this is what I choose to do with my life.

Have you considered moving to the US?

But honestly the pay gap is not due to labour laws, at least not directly. It's because there's a war between the big tech firms to acquire talent which doesn't exist the same way in Europe.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#325

Post by MisterBastahrd »

bonestormii_ wrote: post #145
jusssi wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the difference between a junior and a senior. The latter has better expectations of what one can get done in an average workday, and the confidence to push back with "sorry, looks like this thing's more work than expected, going to need another two days for it". Btw. Looks like the Great America is woke and hates you for the word 'union' you used in your comment.

The "confidence" of senior people to push back is greatly enhanced by the fact that they won't be expediently fired for doing so. And even so, plenty of senior positions suffer from this situation as well. I'm living this hell right now.

I currently work at an org where the least experienced dev has over 10 years of experience. Management is fine knowing that we will say what's on our minds if we don't think something is being handled properly.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#326

Post by campl3r »

SmokeyHamster wrote: post #210

Rights should be restrictions on government. Not mandates on personal and private business behavior. I'm not even sure what is driving this. The EU already has a very lax work ethic. Is there really a problem in Europe with people having to be connected when not at work? What about the jobs that require a person be on-call?

Yes, it's completely nuts that government regulates how I can deliver my work to my employer.

Such rules serve only the government.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#327

Post by matz1 »

j1elo wrote: post #288
vfc1 wrote: post #106

You got to admit that the EU at least has the courage to take some controversial measures in the best interest of their people. I can't see this soon enough, I have family that answer emails in vacation all the time, that get phone calls like its nothing. I know people that connect everyday from home to the office network to work one or two hours (extra) otherwise it's impossible to keep up with the workload. Most ma…

> I have family that answer emails in vacation all the time, that get phone calls like its nothing. But why are they doing that? I get it, a disrespectful boss could require employees to respond email or calls, and fixing that would require a shift in their mentality. But apart from that, I think it is not healthy at all the trend of having an ultra-connected setup with notifications enabled for everything, everywher…

To each their own, some people don't find it a problem, some do. You can't assume everyone work the same way.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#328

Post by ryneandal »

rapsey wrote: post #84
ekianjo wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh so you lock yourself in your office room?

If the kid is too young to understand the issue why not? Someone clue me in why that is so bad.

It isn't. Work/home separation is important when you have children. My kids know when my door is shut, it means I'm "not home."

I've primarily worked at home for six years now, and it's been an incredibly effective method for providing that needed separation.

When the door is open, or if I come out of my office, they know it's a free-for-all for my attention, and I'll often walk out to play with them from time to time to clear my head and/or relieve some work-related stress.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#329

Post by dschep »

phkahler wrote: post #149

I make it a personal policy not to connect to work email, VPN, or other stuff from home. Just dont set it up. I also dont bring a laptop home. Don't enable yourself. And if you must, use their laptop or phone and simply turn it off at the end of work day. Have solid boundaries on this, if your boss complains talk to HR or get a new job. This is not unreasonable and they know it.

Why are you still going into an office during a pandemic? That's far more unreasonable.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#330

Post by ryneandal »

d33 wrote: post #105

> To date, workers in Germany can only write off work costs at home if they can prove they have one room in their household dedicated solely to work. How does one prove they don't use the room for anything else? Webcam recording throughout the month? Also, this kind of deduction favors the rich as the poor can't afford having one room just for that.

Tax deductions in the US were very similar for at-home work. It's absurd because I'm working in that room for between 6-12 hours during the work week (sometimes on weekends when needed), but also used it for a "den" during nights/weekends when I wanted to watch a movie/play a video game as well. This is incredibly common for home offices.
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