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EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

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Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#191

Post by alkonaut »

MereInterest wrote: post #15
CommanderData wrote: post #4

Love this. I've increasingly seen and heard employers trying to take advantage of the current situation and we need more regulation and protection for workers. People are being asked to do extra and too afraid to speak out especially with so many companies making redundancies. One area of focus for me is sickness and working from home. Sick days should be about rest and recovering both physically and mentally. Often…

Along the same lines on sick days, I think it should be forbidden for employers to merge vacation days and sick days into "PTO". Merging the pools gives an incentive for people to come to work while ill. For example, suppose somebody has 3 PTO days remaining for the year, and they are all earmarked for Christmas vacation with family. If that person catches the flu in early December, their options are (a) cancel Chris…

The thing is that sickdays (like healthcare) just sholdn't be a concern of the employer at all.

When I'm sick, an insurance pays me. My employer doesn't. This insurance happens to be public/tax-funded, which is nice.

I don't expect my employer to pay me when I'm not working because I'm sick. Why would they? That would create bizarre incentives to push people to work when they are ill.

My employer pays me during my 5-6w paid time off, that's it. That's vacation. Whether was sick for 0 or 50 days that year doesn't matter.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#192

Post by hibbelig »

mikem170 wrote: post #53
matsemann wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even better: Sick days shouldn't be a pool at all. In Norway there's X amount of sick days one can use without any hassle (all paid), to use any more all you have to do is show a doctors note. If you have to use more than Y amount of days (chronic illness, a more serious thing or something), the government will temporarily take on the responsibility of paying the worker's wages. I don't think people should be punishe…

Do people pretend to be sick to use up their X days? Many people want to have as many days off as they can. If so, you could be in the same situation, call in saying your sick to use all your days then really get sick at the end of the year. If the answer is no, perhaps that is due to cultural differences. It's my impression that folks in Norway are more responsible in many regards compared to Americans.

I think in the end, there is no way around trust. You have to trust the mechanic that they tighten the screws correctly. You have to trust the software developer that they write that does what it should and not something nefarious. You have to trust the salesperson that they don't lie to the customer.

Yes, all of these can be checked to some extent, but it will not be possible to fully check everything.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#193

Post by kwanbix »

vfc1 wrote: post #106

You got to admit that the EU at least has the courage to take some controversial measures in the best interest of their people. I can't see this soon enough, I have family that answer emails in vacation all the time, that get phone calls like its nothing. I know people that connect everyday from home to the office network to work one or two hours (extra) otherwise it's impossible to keep up with the workload. Most ma…

My experience is just the opposite. People disappear for their holidays and they don't even live a backup most of the time.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#194

Post by BurningFrog »

bonestormii_ wrote: post #145
jusssi wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the difference between a junior and a senior. The latter has better expectations of what one can get done in an average workday, and the confidence to push back with "sorry, looks like this thing's more work than expected, going to need another two days for it". Btw. Looks like the Great America is woke and hates you for the word 'union' you used in your comment.

The "confidence" of senior people to push back is greatly enhanced by the fact that they won't be expediently fired for doing so. And even so, plenty of senior positions suffer from this situation as well. I'm living this hell right now.

Then again, a competent senior engineer can easily get another job.

I'm just one atypical person, but in my experience, the employer is usually more nervous about the employee breaking things off than the employee.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#195

Post by rtuulik »

tolbish wrote: post #136
MereInterest wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm fine with that, so long as there is also a reasonable amount of vacation time. The US really needs to get with the times and have basic workers' rights. Currently, the average number of vacation days per year in the US (17 days), is less than the statutory minimum number of days in many countries. Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/15/statista-how-far-behind-us-i...

Wait until you find out how many days per year the US mandates for parental leave. I'll save you the suspense. The number is zero.

Besides United States, Papua New Guinea and Suriname also do not require employers to provide paid time off for new parents. So US isn´t the only country in the world that doesn´t have paid parental leave. Its one of the three countries in the world.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#196

Post by [deleted] »

op03 wrote: post #189
vfc1 wrote: post #106

You got to admit that the EU at least has the courage to take some controversial measures in the best interest of their people. I can't see this soon enough, I have family that answer emails in vacation all the time, that get phone calls like its nothing. I know people that connect everyday from home to the office network to work one or two hours (extra) otherwise it's impossible to keep up with the workload. Most ma…

It's all very courageous until you try to get projects done. The EU reminds me of how the UN unravelled into irrelevance back in the 70s-80s. Lots of good intentions, cash flowed, all kinds of progressive projects were seeded but then what happened?

[deleted]

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#197

Post by Muromec »

vfc1 wrote: post #106

You got to admit that the EU at least has the courage to take some controversial measures in the best interest of their people. I can't see this soon enough, I have family that answer emails in vacation all the time, that get phone calls like its nothing. I know people that connect everyday from home to the office network to work one or two hours (extra) otherwise it's impossible to keep up with the workload. Most ma…

Wait, what? 40 hour work week is controversial measure?

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#198

Post by fpig »

pavlov wrote: post #62
mikem170 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do people pretend to be sick to use up their X days? Many people want to have as many days off as they can. If so, you could be in the same situation, call in saying your sick to use all your days then really get sick at the end of the year. If the answer is no, perhaps that is due to cultural differences. It's my impression that folks in Norway are more responsible in many regards compared to Americans.

> “... folks in Norway are more responsible in many regards compared to Americans.” Which is cause and which is consequence? Maybe Norwegians are more responsible at work because employers don’t exploit them so openly and the law gives them more protection.

We have tons of labor protections in Croatia and people still try to game the system in any way they can. Labor laws just make this easier. Sick leave is massively abused, even though it requires a doctor to authorize it (but is unlimited). People get their doctor to authorize their fake sick leave. We’re a corrupt society on all levels and in all areas of life. Norway likely isn’t.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#199

Post by allendoerfer »

op03 wrote: post #189
vfc1 wrote: post #106

You got to admit that the EU at least has the courage to take some controversial measures in the best interest of their people. I can't see this soon enough, I have family that answer emails in vacation all the time, that get phone calls like its nothing. I know people that connect everyday from home to the office network to work one or two hours (extra) otherwise it's impossible to keep up with the workload. Most ma…

It's all very courageous until you try to get projects done. The EU reminds me of how the UN unravelled into irrelevance back in the 70s-80s. Lots of good intentions, cash flowed, all kinds of progressive projects were seeded but then what happened?

Difference is, the member-states actually have given the EU some power in its area of competence, while the UN is just a club to keep in touch with each other (which is also very important).

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#200

Post by Cederfjard »

userbinator wrote: post #38

Seeing this is surprising, as none of the places I've worked expects me to work outside of normal working hours, in the same way they don't expect me to do personal activities in their working hours.

So you’ve not even heard of such a thing? May I ask where you are based?
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