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EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

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Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#71

Post by donatj »

germinalphrase wrote: post #65
donatj wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with your assessment in the strongest terms as I have personally experienced them being separate as achieving the opposite most of my 15 year career. Places I had worked including my current employer, vacation days need to be scheduled at least a week+ in advance. As a person who gets sick a lot I almost always end up having to take unpaid days off when I’m sick because I blew though my 3-5 sick days. Plac…

Or require more than 3-5 sick days. Hardly seems adequate.

Like give me three weeks of sick days. And no vacation. And you can call it PTO if you want, sounds great.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#72

Post by Germanika »

donatj wrote: post #46
MereInterest wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Along the same lines on sick days, I think it should be forbidden for employers to merge vacation days and sick days into "PTO". Merging the pools gives an incentive for people to come to work while ill. For example, suppose somebody has 3 PTO days remaining for the year, and they are all earmarked for Christmas vacation with family. If that person catches the flu in early December, their options are (a) cancel Chris…

I disagree with your assessment in the strongest terms as I have personally experienced them being separate as achieving the opposite most of my 15 year career. Places I had worked including my current employer, vacation days need to be scheduled at least a week+ in advance. As a person who gets sick a lot I almost always end up having to take unpaid days off when I’m sick because I blew though my 3-5 sick days. Plac…

See, this just tells me that 3-5 sick days is completely inadequate. I've been fortunate to generally have virtually unlimited sick days, and I very much prefer that to having to use up my limited vacation days.

It does point out that they'd need to enforce a reasonable minimum number of sick days if they're forcing them to be separate from PTO.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#73

Post by MereInterest »

brnt wrote: post #60
MereInterest wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Along the same lines on sick days, I think it should be forbidden for employers to merge vacation days and sick days into "PTO". Merging the pools gives an incentive for people to come to work while ill. For example, suppose somebody has 3 PTO days remaining for the year, and they are all earmarked for Christmas vacation with family. If that person catches the flu in early December, their options are (a) cancel Chris…

A pool of sickdays? What the? Is there a pool of cancer days too?

I share your shock, and try to keep myself from feeling that the current situation in the US is either normal or ethical. To answer your question, yes, recovery from cancer would could from the pool of sick days in most places in the US. If the recovery takes more than the pool of sick days (7-9 days per year, somehow and perversely being different on average by seniority[0]), then all remaining recovery time is unpaid.

[0] https://www.surepayroll.com/resources/blog/how-many-sick-day...

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#74

Post by spaetzleesser »

dahfizz wrote: post #7

> The right to disconnect refers to a worker’s right to be able to disengage from work and refrain from engaging in work-related electronic communications, such as emails or other messages, during non-work hours.[1] What does that even mean? Is the EU also going to come out with the "Right to breathe" and the "Right to go to the bathroom when you need to"? I'm really frustrated with how the term "right" has been wate…

“The right to breathe” is actually a very important right and has led to environmental regulations. It’s correlated to “the right to not be harmed by others”.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#75

Post by MereInterest »

donatj wrote: post #67
MereInterest wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like the problem is in having such a small pool of sick days, not in the concept of separation. By no fault of your own, by getting sick more often, you are forced to give up income (current situation) or to give up your vacation (merged PTO). Neither of those is an acceptable situation, and the solution is to have more reasonable sick leave policies.

PTO is the more reasonable policy. I have weeks of sick days, it’s great.

Even better solution: As much sick leave as you need while sick, without taking away your vacation time as a result.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#76

Post by alias_neo »

rapsey wrote: post #34
hawktheslayer wrote: post #11

I also see the opposite impact both for me and my staff. It's very difficult to say no to the constant demands of children at home and the lack of physical distance makes it hard for me to concentrate on my work during regular work hours.

But that does not hold for everyone. If you have an office room in your house you can keep children at bay. Lots of parents are fine with working from home.

Although I don't agree with the person you're replying to, your suggestion is equally as "partially-valid".

My wife and I have a 1 year old, and we're both professionals who need to focus on work, hold meetings, and generally concentrate on our work. Which of us should look after our 1 year old while the other keeps the child at bay by hiding in the office?

The fact of the matter is; our homes were generally not created to be work places, and employers need to accept that as another commenter eloquently put it; we're not working from home, we're at home during a crises, trying to work.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#77

Post by wincy »

MereInterest wrote: post #52
maxerickson wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other side of it, it's nice to get the time off even if you don't get sick. Companies will tend to argue that sick time is only for when you are sick.

I'm fine with that, so long as there is also a reasonable amount of vacation time. The US really needs to get with the times and have basic workers' rights. Currently, the average number of vacation days per year in the US (17 days), is less than the statutory minimum number of days in many countries. Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/15/statista-how-far-behind-us-i...

After taking a look at some other companies, I realized it’s pretty cushy having 26 days of PTO per year at a US company. When recruiters come knocking I point out that I don’t want to lose PTO days, and won’t consider positions where I’d have a reduction. Most of them don’t message me back.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#78

Post by mchusma »

MereInterest wrote: post #15
CommanderData wrote: post #4

Love this. I've increasingly seen and heard employers trying to take advantage of the current situation and we need more regulation and protection for workers. People are being asked to do extra and too afraid to speak out especially with so many companies making redundancies. One area of focus for me is sickness and working from home. Sick days should be about rest and recovering both physically and mentally. Often…

Along the same lines on sick days, I think it should be forbidden for employers to merge vacation days and sick days into "PTO". Merging the pools gives an incentive for people to come to work while ill. For example, suppose somebody has 3 PTO days remaining for the year, and they are all earmarked for Christmas vacation with family. If that person catches the flu in early December, their options are (a) cancel Chris…

I think in practice they are merged to avoid incentives to lie. Every org I have worked at that had separate pools there was widespread lying about being sick.

Nobody really asked or cared, so in effect they are the same thing. In practice lying was incentivized, and managers that didn't want to be lied to just adopted the policy that your sick days were yours to take for any reason.

I don't think this is something that should be legislated. It's really far down on the list to address.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#79

Post by MereInterest »

cyphar wrote: post #50
maxerickson wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other side of it, it's nice to get the time off even if you don't get sick. Companies will tend to argue that sick time is only for when you are sick.

Does the US not have guaranteed vacation days? Here in Australia all non-casual workers must be given 20 days off a year (which in my view is actually too little -- in Europe workers get even more guaranteed days off). EDIT: This doesn't count public holidays, we have 10 or so public holidays (depending on your state) in addition to your vacation days.

Nope. The US has no federal mandate for vacation days. Zero, zilch. The typical amount for full-time employees is 10 days vacation per year.

[0] https://www.footholdamerica.com/faqs/employing-a-us-worker/h...

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#80

Post by izacus »

aminozuur wrote: post #32

What about the employees who are happy to stay ready 'on-call', in a position where they are payed more then they've ever made? Could the employee make an agreement with his/her employer, or would such an agreement be deemed 'unlawful' under the new law?

Pretty much all of legal frameworks in EU places have specific exceptions for "On-Call" type work and they usually demand extra compensation and clear agreement between the employee and employer.

I think it's kinda self-evident that this would be the case?

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