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S&P Dow Jones Indices to launch cryptocurrency indexes in 2021

reuters.com

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Re: S&P Dow Jones Indices to launch cryptocurrency indexes in 2021

#491

Post by wizeman »

wayeq wrote: post #439
doggosphere wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you take your dollars in to the government and redeem it for units of "military might", whatever that means? You have it backwards. The military is an instrument in protecting the US dollar's dominance, control and influence as a reserve currency.

No, but you can pay your taxes with USD, and stay out of prison, which is kind of nice.

Practically all fiat currencies that have ever existed can or could also be used to pay your taxes and keep you out of prison, including all the ones that got destroyed or are currently being destroyed by hyper-inflation.

So I don't think that it's a good argument for the USD being backed by value.

Re: S&P Dow Jones Indices to launch cryptocurrency indexes in 2021

#492

Post by seebetter »

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #276

I’m enjoying sitting on the sidelines and watching people “invest” in a digital “currency” that you cannot spend, does not produce cash flow, and whose values are determined by other shmucks buying it from previous shmucks. What a time to be alive. No wonder the S&P 500 CAPE ratio is beyond the 1929 high. No one has any idea of what the intrinsic value is of anything. Investing in companies that don’t make a profit,…

I agree and I took your advice. I believe in building things not trying to find some investment. I mined bitcoin and bought it at $1. And I looked at Ethereum prior to their ICO.

Start a business, build a product. If you have excess cash by all means invest in crypto assets and startups.

Re: S&P Dow Jones Indices to launch cryptocurrency indexes in 2021

#493

Post by seebetter »

gzu wrote: post #437
andrewmcwatters wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Central banking as it exists in the US is designed to encourage spending. One person’s spending becomes another’s income. Having finite dollars and increasing demand leads to a currency that only increases in value. If an asset increases in value, there is an incentive to acquire it and not part with it.

Central banks are trying to prop up the deflationary structural changes happening in the broader world economies due to aging demographics and technology reducing the value of human labor. The end result is an enormous asset bubble as their only solution is to print money to prevent any actual deflation from happening as that would implode the financial system.

Yes but the inflation will come in 5-7 years. Just in time to liquidate the amount of debt the government owes.

Pretty clever trick but it’s only a random accident of the financialized systems that make modern life possible. It’s like how all the pandemic chaos only increased corporate profits and government power.

It’s just endless consistent accidents that never benefit 95% of people.

Re: S&P Dow Jones Indices to launch cryptocurrency indexes in 2021

#494

Post by anonymouse008 »

volume wrote: post #481
jkhdigital wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No matter how much I read on the subject, I always feel like the true nature and complexity of money eludes me. I don’t mean to disparage your comments, but I believe they reflect a lack of appreciation for the magnitude of the subject.

what I don't understand is Modern Monetary Theory: https://www.investopedia.com/modern-monetary-theory-mmt-4588... Could it be that all this worry about printing money really doesn't matter?

It only doesn't matter as long as your demand outstrips supply --

Read as: as long as others want access and are not fully satiated to you, your affiliates, or what you both possess

Re: S&P Dow Jones Indices to launch cryptocurrency indexes in 2021

#495

Post by shitgoose »

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #276

I’m enjoying sitting on the sidelines and watching people “invest” in a digital “currency” that you cannot spend, does not produce cash flow, and whose values are determined by other shmucks buying it from previous shmucks. What a time to be alive. No wonder the S&P 500 CAPE ratio is beyond the 1929 high. No one has any idea of what the intrinsic value is of anything. Investing in companies that don’t make a profit,…

crypto is money. money can be invested, i.e. crypto can be invested. one does not invest in crypto. you are looking from the fiat=the_only_money prospective, which is limited. there are many types of money - fiat, crypto, gold. you can move between them, but those are not strictly investments in a sense of cash flow generation.

re intrinsic value - i think that intrinsic value is a fiction. there is always a market value. i don't know what the hell "intrinsic" value is and how useful can it be.

Re: S&P Dow Jones Indices to launch cryptocurrency indexes in 2021

#496

Post by wizeman »

tylerhou wrote: post #490
shawnz wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not intrinsic value though. Fiat currency by definition has no intrinsic value. Fiat literally means "let it be done", i.e. it is given value by a decree and not because of its intrinsic value.

You have to pay taxes in USD. Not being thrown in jail is value... maybe not intrinsic though. USD in paper form can also be burned for warmth, or used to write on. In coin form, it has the same intrinsic value as the metal.

I think you would agree that the intrinsic value of dollars as backed by the metal in USD coins is negligible compared to how many USD exist, because nobody has them in substantial amounts (due to being impractical). The value of the paper that the dollars are printed on is also negligible compared to the value of the bills themselves, let alone all the USD that exist (as you probably know, the vast majority of which don't actually exist as bills or coins).

Besides, everything you said, including tax payment and keeping out of jail, also applies to the Venezuelan bolivar and quite a few other fiat currencies that completely crashed in value due to hyper-inflation.

So I don't think those are good arguments for the USD being valuable or having substantial intrinsic value.

Re: S&P Dow Jones Indices to launch cryptocurrency indexes in 2021

#497

Post by santahigh »

tybit wrote: post #489
doggosphere wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm enjoying sitting on the sidelines and watching people "save" in a fiat "currency" whose value is not linked to anything intrinsic, whose supply can magically be increased at the discretion of a few powerful individuals, and whose value has been declining relative to almost any tradeable assets. What a time to be alive. No wonder the M2 money supply is at an all time high. No one has any idea of what the intrinsic…

Most people aren't investing in fiat, they are investing productive assets like real estate or businesses e.g the share market. I don't have strong opinions on fiat vs crypto, primarily because it seems like a boring question. Whatever currency is the future, currency isn't the present or the future of investments, productive assets are.

Most people aren't investing in bitcoin either. Current market cap of bitcoin is ~200 billion dollars. This is so minuscule it qualifies as rounding error on any meaningful scale.

Re: S&P Dow Jones Indices to launch cryptocurrency indexes in 2021

#498

Post by RyanShook »

My biggest concern/question with crypto as an asset is tax liability. In the US, if you sell crypto it’s always taxed as property and not as an investment. This has big tax implications that hold it back from being an efficient investment. Obviously returns make the hassle worthwhile still but I’m wondering how this may change in the future.

Re: S&P Dow Jones Indices to launch cryptocurrency indexes in 2021

#499

Post by kbhn »

doggosphere wrote: post #450
itsoktocry wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm enjoying sitting on the sidelines and watching people "save" in a fiat "currency" whose value is not linked to anything intrinsic I'm pro crypto, but this is ridiculous. No intrinsic value? I can spend my dollars anywhere in the world with no input or reliance on any other entity. They might be the most valuable asset on the planet.

As a means of trade, yes, they are powerful because they are widely trusted and preferred. However once you have them, you get rid of them. Good assets don't lose value over time. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1032048/value-us-dollar-...

Good assets also don't get stolen if 51% of the network becomes compromised by a bad actor.

Re: S&P Dow Jones Indices to launch cryptocurrency indexes in 2021

#500

Post by ayyy »

anonymouse008 wrote: post #494
volume wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what I don't understand is Modern Monetary Theory: https://www.investopedia.com/modern-monetary-theory-mmt-4588... Could it be that all this worry about printing money really doesn't matter?

It only doesn't matter as long as your demand outstrips supply -- Read as: as long as others want access and are not fully satiated to you, your affiliates, or what you both possess

So, yes. Also, if the answer is "no", we're already very screwed.
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