Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

platformer.news

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

491–500 of 926 posts

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#491

Post by scythe »

>A cross functional team then reviewed the paper as part of our regular process and the authors were informed that it didn’t meet our bar for publication and were given feedback about why. It ignored too much relevant research — for example, it talked about the environmental impact of large models, but disregarded subsequent research showing much greater efficiencies. Similarly, it raised concerns about bias in language models, but didn’t take into account recent research to mitigate these issues.

So I don't work in AI, but in every field I have worked in, and in the academic journals I used to work for, all of these are issues that would be addressed during the standard peer review process.

You ignored recent publications? Reviewers will complain. A good journal will have peer reviewers who know which citations are missing.

You left out citations that weaken your conclusion? Reviewers will complain. Et cetera.

I realize people object to Gebru's history on Twitter, but Google exec's defense of her dismissal sounds pretty weak to me.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#492

Post by breatheoften »

Why do these parties not agree on the timeline for the review period? One party claims they had been going through review for 2 months and one said the review was submitted with only 1 day ...

It seems likely that both sides are mis-characterizing events in pursuit of their own goals -- which to me suggests a general environment where parties are tending not to communicate with the goal of arriving at agreement -- but rather as adversaries.

Hackernews will of course assume that the only reason for an adversarial relationship in this scenario is "cancel culture SJW memes" and other "deemed toxic" trends for which the minority voice is almost always the only guilty party.

I think that level of dismissal is unwarranted as it seems pretty likely to me that there is a definite gotcha-oriented communication style coming from the google leadership here -- which very well might reflect an intentionally or unconsciously adopted strategy to create obstacles for voices of disagreement like this.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#493

Post by ciarannolan »

christmm wrote: post #107

It is surprising she was not fired long ago. I suppose Timnit was usually rewarded for such an attitude, chock full of victim based language. "after all the micro and macro aggressions and harassments I received" "does it just happen to people like me who are constantly dehumanized?" "Silencing marginalized voices like this is the opposite of the NAUWU principles which we discussed" "the next day I get some random “i…

People with this ultimate victim attitude are absolutely toxic to employ and work with. I go out of my way to screen them out of hiring in technical roles.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#494

Post by Andraia »

uoaei wrote: post #185
Tycho wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the ultimatum part that makes the difference.

Y'all are alleging that it was phrased as an ultimatum. I'm not so sure that's the case. Proposing an option of resigning is not the same thing as "I will definitely resign".

> I'm not so sure that's the case.

The person who benefits from your doubt, _and_ could resolve your doubt, chooses not to.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#495

Post by refulgentis »

istjohn wrote: post #485
thebladerunner wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To clarify, the first paragraph of defertoreotar@'s comment is a quote from Timnit Gebru's tweet where she admits to recently conspiring a legal battle against Google, while on Google's payroll. A wolf in sheep's clothing...

I'm not sure why you seem to think that her willingness to assert her rights under the law should discredit her in any way.

The thrust of her thread today is that it is shocking how Google dumped her with no warning - it sounds like, instead, they continued employing her for months and months while her lawyer was threatening to sue the company, and the culminating event was making demands for the company to meet if she was to stay.

Declining to accept an employee's set of ultimatums, an employee who already engaged in threatening legal action for months and months, is arguably a much clearer framing than "her willingness to assert her rights under the law"

Therefore "recently conspiring a legal battle against Google, while on Google's payroll." is worth sharing, it provides information not present in the limited frame of "her willingness to assert her rights under the law"

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#496

Post by uoaei »

Andraia wrote: post #457
uoaei wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, she didn't say that. She said she may set a date in the future for her resignation. That is non-committal and non-specific. Your characterization is inaccurate.

> No, she didn't say that. Citation needed. Gebru could publish it — she's not exactly silent — but chooses not to. It's perfectly reasonable to think that someone hiding something has something to hide.

There is obviously a legal minefield here already. I think it is disingenuous to put that burden of proof on her at this stage.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#497

Post by davorak »

pb7 wrote: post #469
davorak wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you email your employer saying give me this or I resign If it's that clear cut it's that clear cut. Without the email I can not tell. Timnit Gebru said she "hadn't resigned" and "had asked for simple conditions". So according to her the intent to resign was not in her email. https://twitter.com/timnitGebru/status/1334341991795142667 It's possible to not have the intent and still word something as a clear cut for…

Email from Google here[0] and corroboration from Jeff Dean here[1]: "Timnit responded with an email requiring that a number of conditions be met in order for her to continue working at Google, including revealing the identities of every person who Megan and I had spoken to and consulted as part of the review of the paper and the exact feedback. Timnit wrote that if we didn’t meet these demands, she would leave Google…

What is missing and would make it clearer where things fall is the email from Timnit to Jeff.

Then the language used by Timnit could analyzed and reasoned through to determine if it counts as a formal offer to resign or not.

I not jumping on any bandwagons without at least that or equivalent.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#498

Post by 1024core »

elevenoh wrote: post #454
1024core wrote: post #449

This person forced Yann LeCun (one of the top 3 AI/ML researchers today, head of Facebook AI, and an ML researcher since the 80s) to give up on Twitter after she took exception to this tweet of his: https://twitter.com/ylecun/status/1274782757907030016 She lives her life attacking people who she disagrees with, and brings in race/gender into any conflict where she's involved. I am surprised Google had hired her, beca…

Thanks for sharing. Curious: How did she 'force him to give up on twitter'? There's a lotta companies who've hired ticking time bombs like this. They don't get why they were truly hired.

It was discussed on HN a few months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23696427

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#499

Post by xupybd »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #232
xupybd wrote: post #65

She seems very passionate about makeing the world a better place. The only downside to this sort of drive is that it doesn't always align with everyone else's vision of a better world. I don't think she and Google were on the same page and perhaps both parties will be much happier going their separate ways.

> She seems very passionate about makeing the world a better place. Some of the worst people in history who committed the worst atrocities were very passionate about making the world a better place, at least as they defined “better”.

Agreed, I'm simply stating that she is clearly very motivated to propagate her world view and that it doesn't align with her employer. I am making no comment on the validity or morality of either her position or Googles position.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#500

Post by 1024core »

deanCommie wrote: post #455
1024core wrote: post #449

This person forced Yann LeCun (one of the top 3 AI/ML researchers today, head of Facebook AI, and an ML researcher since the 80s) to give up on Twitter after she took exception to this tweet of his: https://twitter.com/ylecun/status/1274782757907030016 She lives her life attacking people who she disagrees with, and brings in race/gender into any conflict where she's involved. I am surprised Google had hired her, beca…

> forced ... to give up on Twitter after she took exception to this tweet Can you provide a source for this. What did she say? There are legitimate criticisms of Yann's tweet. Just because he is technically correct about how ML works doesn't mean that what he is saying isn't ALSO a classical dismissal of the concerns people have with AI. The issue isn't that ML is evil or racist. The issue is that if it is used too o…

It was discussed on HN a few months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23696427

Basically (to summarize a lot), his point was: an ML model is only as good as the data you feed it. If, say, the photos for your face recognition model are only of white men, then obviously the model will do well on white men, while (possibly) not doing as well on other races or genders. This is a statement of fact, and nothing controversial about it.

But she took offense to it, and started insulting him on Twitter. He got tired of defending himself, and just quit twitter.

Post reply on HN