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AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

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Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#471

Post by uoaei »

compiler-guy wrote: post #358
uoaei wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, she didn't say that. She said she may set a date in the future for her resignation. That is non-committal and non-specific. Your characterization is inaccurate.

People will have to find the source document, which to the best of my knowledge is not public (note, not the message to Women and Allies), read it, and then reach their own conclusions. I stand by my characterization. She characterizes it herself thusly: "I said here are the conditions. If you can meet them great I’ll take my name off this paper, if not then I can work on a last date." https://twitter.com/timnitGebru…

> I can work on a last date

...is both non-committal and non-specific. What are you seeing that everyone else is not?

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#472

Post by hpoe »

GVIrish wrote: post #463
hpoe wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I don't know enough to make a well informed opinion; however it seems part of the aggreivement on her part is that she was not given the names of those who peer reviewed her paper. If internally she has a history of bringing race or sex into every discussion I could see why they'd rather be anonymous. Even being accused of being racist can ruin someone's career in this current climate.

They wouldn't even share with her the feedback on her paper to give her the opportunity to fix it. They didn't have to say who the feedback was from, but they could've at least told her the substance of the feedback.

To quote from Dean's email

"Timnit responded with an email requiring that a number of conditions be met in order for her to continue working at Google, including revealing the identities of every person who Megan and I had spoken to and consulted as part of the review of the paper and the exact feedback."

I can imagine wanting to know the feedback, but she didn't ask for that she asked for the identity of everyone person who they consulted.

It could also be that disclosing the feedback would've identified the individual.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#473

Post by fmajid »

parliament32 wrote: post #26

I don't think "fired" is the right choice of words -- she gave an ultimatum offering to resign, and they accepted her resignation. Is accepting a resignation the same as firing someone? > Thanks for making your conditions clear. We cannot agree to #1 and #2 as you are requesting. We respect your decision to leave Google as a result, and we are accepting your resignation. https://twitter.com/timnitGebru/status/1334364…

> Is accepting a resignation the same as firing someone?

No. No COBRA benefits and usually no severance. Also the employee is not eligible for unemployment benefits.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#474

Post by thundergolfer »

bww wrote: post #154

From her email: > So if you would like to change things, I suggest focusing on leadership accountability and thinking through what types of pressures can also be applied from the outside. For instance, I believe that the Congressional Black Caucus is the entity that started forcing tech companies to report their diversity numbers. This probably shouldn't need pointing out, but appealing to your colleagues to put pres…

In plenty of countries it would be illegal to fire someone for doing that. It’s clear that the results of Timnit’s actions were hardly unpredictable given the state of USA corporatelabour relations, but one could still fault management.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#475

Post by anonvenger »

riku_iki wrote: post #41
barrkel wrote: post #12

If I understand the document correctly, she wants HR to be biased against hiring "privileged" people (I think that means white, possibly male too, not sure) and wants to get politicians to force the company to report to create pressure for the same.

Is considering gender and race as a factor during hiring process illegal, and thus those "dei okrs" to hire more women too?..

a. Yes, but you can post 'women and minorities encouraged' job ads. b. No.

People invested in identity politics are, by their own admission, interested in outcomes. In this world view, the legal system is a tool for achieving the desired outcomes. The same set of rules can be illegal if it rejects certain identities in a context, and at the same time legal if it promotes those identities in a different context. 'Heads I win, tails you lose', but dead serious.

A thread discussing the pervasive 'women and minorities encouraged' mindset is in western academia:

https://academia.stackexchange.com/questions/95011/is-it-con...

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#477

Post by denysvitali »

pseudalopex wrote: post #366
pmontra wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember that I read somewhere (maybe here on HN) years ago that HR is like the secret police of police states. Nobody willingfully talks to them, except their bosses. The dynamics of this incident, the secrecy, the lack of care about people, enforce that metaphor. I wonder what People Ops is, something more about logistics maybe. Still paid by the company, so it can't be on the side of employees.

People Ops is HR.

I wonder how many years it will take them to switch their HR department to PRE (People Reliability Engineers)

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#478

Post by Ar-Curunir »

dash2 wrote: post #374
black_puppydog wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point, that also took a bit of disentangling for me. As such, I find it really quite baffling that someone would be unwilling to share that scientific feedback with her, or who raised it.

Some refereeing processes are anonymous, and there can be good reasons for that, like preventing academic logrolling. It's standard in academia.

This is internal legal review, not academic peer review.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#479

Post by sorenjan »

1024core wrote: post #449

This person forced Yann LeCun (one of the top 3 AI/ML researchers today, head of Facebook AI, and an ML researcher since the 80s) to give up on Twitter after she took exception to this tweet of his: https://twitter.com/ylecun/status/1274782757907030016 She lives her life attacking people who she disagrees with, and brings in race/gender into any conflict where she's involved. I am surprised Google had hired her, beca…

Reminds me of the drama with Coraline Ada Ehmke and the Contributor Covenant a few years back that forced Linus Torvalds to take a break. These people are drama seeking instigators that demand that people do as they say, and companies keep giving in to them. It's a kind of rent seeking and power grabbing.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#480

Post by RcouF1uZ4gsC »

unknownkadath wrote: post #283
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> She seems very passionate about makeing the world a better place. Some of the worst people in history who committed the worst atrocities were very passionate about making the world a better place, at least as they defined “better”.

I mean, so were pretty much all of the best people in history. That's not a great filter for finding the next hitler, is it?

But I would guess that if you added up all the contributions of the people most passionate for making the world a better place, the bad far outweighs the good.
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