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AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

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Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#461

Post by hpoe »

1024core wrote: post #449

This person forced Yann LeCun (one of the top 3 AI/ML researchers today, head of Facebook AI, and an ML researcher since the 80s) to give up on Twitter after she took exception to this tweet of his: https://twitter.com/ylecun/status/1274782757907030016 She lives her life attacking people who she disagrees with, and brings in race/gender into any conflict where she's involved. I am surprised Google had hired her, beca…

So I don't know enough to make a well informed opinion; however it seems part of the aggreivement on her part is that she was not given the names of those who peer reviewed her paper.

If internally she has a history of bringing race or sex into every discussion I could see why they'd rather be anonymous. Even being accused of being racist can ruin someone's career in this current climate.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#462

Post by tinyhouse »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #441
tinyhouse wrote: post #95

Good for Google. I don't know anything about her, but her debate with Lecun on Twitter was enough for me to know she is toxic. I don't care how good of a researcher she is. The fact they fired her given the current climate shows they actually have balls. I had no idea... I read her email. You know what's crazy about it? she is talking about Google silencing marginalized voices. She keeps referring to herself as a mar…

"There's not even one sentence in her email about what is actually the content of her paper that is so controversial" From the Jeff Dean email it seems like the "cross-functional team" (read: includes people who are focused on company's bottom line, not the subject matter of the paper) wanted some sort of "fair balance" when discussing AI. He cites some examples. Does this mean if we review papers on AI from Google e…

They added Jeff's response later. I just read it. They thought the paper is missing important information and doesn't meet the bar. Fair point. That's why there's an internal review process. Her reaction was childish. She took it personally and emailed a rant to the Women list even though it has nothing to do with her being a woman, nor black. She also demanded to reveal the reviewers. (again it shows she is sure it was personal). All her public interactions so far show clearly what kind of person she is. She should join academia where she can publish whatever she wants. I'm sure she made a ton of money at Google and I wouldn't be surprised if she is going to milk more money from them via a lawsuit. She is a privileged woman.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#463

Post by GVIrish »

hpoe wrote: post #461
1024core wrote: post #449

This person forced Yann LeCun (one of the top 3 AI/ML researchers today, head of Facebook AI, and an ML researcher since the 80s) to give up on Twitter after she took exception to this tweet of his: https://twitter.com/ylecun/status/1274782757907030016 She lives her life attacking people who she disagrees with, and brings in race/gender into any conflict where she's involved. I am surprised Google had hired her, beca…

So I don't know enough to make a well informed opinion; however it seems part of the aggreivement on her part is that she was not given the names of those who peer reviewed her paper. If internally she has a history of bringing race or sex into every discussion I could see why they'd rather be anonymous. Even being accused of being racist can ruin someone's career in this current climate.

They wouldn't even share with her the feedback on her paper to give her the opportunity to fix it. They didn't have to say who the feedback was from, but they could've at least told her the substance of the feedback.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#464

Post by swiley »

1024core wrote: post #449

This person forced Yann LeCun (one of the top 3 AI/ML researchers today, head of Facebook AI, and an ML researcher since the 80s) to give up on Twitter after she took exception to this tweet of his: https://twitter.com/ylecun/status/1274782757907030016 She lives her life attacking people who she disagrees with, and brings in race/gender into any conflict where she's involved. I am surprised Google had hired her, beca…

Seeing this kind of thing is why I keep putting "Be Nice!" into the MOTDs on all my machines.

I know I flip out at people on the internet sometimes but I hope I never become someone like that.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#465

Post by uoaei »

xibalba wrote: post #422
compiler-guy wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People will have to find the source document, which to the best of my knowledge is not public (note, not the message to Women and Allies), read it, and then reach their own conclusions. I stand by my characterization. She characterizes it herself thusly: "I said here are the conditions. If you can meet them great I’ll take my name off this paper, if not then I can work on a last date." https://twitter.com/timnitGebru…

I think this is a major source of confusion in this whole conversation. There is clearly a follow up conversation between Timnit and some manager(s) (the name Megan is mentioned) in which this ultimatum was proffered.

That's not clear to me, nor apparently to most people who are interpreting this situation.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#466

Post by Andraia »

oh_sigh wrote: post #263
joshuamorton wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without the specific wording of the original email, I don't think that you can draw this conclusion. I'll note also that this is rather unusual practice for Google. There are a number of people, far more critical of Google, who have resigned, and who have been able to rampdown for 2+ weeks.

The posted email specifically says something about behavior not expected of her position. So it seems possible if you are critical, but fulfill your obligations, they would accept your 2 weeks resignation. Is there an example you have, even self-reported, of a person who was merely critical of Google and was not given a rampdown? Or someone who was critical and did not fulfill their job obligations, and was given a r…

Being critical is fine. Brad Fitzpatrick wasn't fired for https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpsMkLaEiOY and Google still hosts that piece of (legitimate!) criticism.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#467

Post by mirekrusin »

black_puppydog wrote: post #114
jeffbee wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the article it says the company wanted the author to retract their paper. Doesn't sound like they were being vague about it.

"Retract the paper" not an allegation though. It is a demand / conclusion of a decision process. It doesn't allow any response/defense, and you're right, they don't seem to have been vague about not wanting any of that.

Something fishy about submitting paper with 1 day notice before its deadline when internal review process takes 2 weeks - she must have known the drill as she published dosens of papers before at G. Approval sounds like somebody's mistake maybe, not awaiting for review feedback for submission and submitting - feels strange. Especially when followed by threat of leaving company if identities of people consulted in review process is not revealed, at the same time being involved in litigation against G while on G's payroll etc.

It's like you have good Silicon Valley espisode just from that, I'm not sure if I buy total innocence here.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#468

Post by uoaei »

Copenjin wrote: post #249
uoaei wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one of the worse takes possible about this situation. Her role is specifically created to hold her employer to account when they are using bad practices. Her opposition to particular policies enacted in the company is literally part of her job description.

I understand what you are saying, but I doubt they hired her to be some kind of controller with unlimited enforcing power (as she says: "I understand that the only things that mean anything at Google are levels"). Only highlighting issues without power to enforce anything is not enough to have any tangible results? That's for sure. But she was not the CEO.

This is a very dangerous stance to take. You are advocating for a purely authoritarian mode of management, applied universally without concern for context.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#469

Post by pb7 »

davorak wrote: post #435
pb7 wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn’t having a beer with your buddies and spitballing plans. If you email your employer saying give me this or I resign, the employer can accept your resignation simply by saying no to your conditions. It’s grade school logic. They called her bluff and that’s why she’s salty about it. She signaled her intention to resign and due to her behavior with her reports, Google doesn’t want more of that on her way out so…

> If you email your employer saying give me this or I resign If it's that clear cut it's that clear cut. Without the email I can not tell. Timnit Gebru said she "hadn't resigned" and "had asked for simple conditions". So according to her the intent to resign was not in her email. https://twitter.com/timnitGebru/status/1334341991795142667 It's possible to not have the intent and still word something as a clear cut for…

Email from Google here[0] and corroboration from Jeff Dean here[1]:

"Timnit responded with an email requiring that a number of conditions be met in order for her to continue working at Google, including revealing the identities of every person who Megan and I had spoken to and consulted as part of the review of the paper and the exact feedback. Timnit wrote that if we didn’t meet these demands, she would leave Google and work on an end date. We accept and respect her decision to resign from Google."

[0] https://twitter.com/timnitGebru/status/1334364732480958467?s... [1] https://www.platformer.news/p/the-withering-email-that-got-a...

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#470

Post by hpoe »

sjs382 wrote: post #397

It's hard to make too much sense about what happened. Here's what I made of it, if anyone can point out any important mistakes/inaccuracies/details: 1. She and her co-authors submitted a paper for review 1 day before its (external, for publication?) due date. It's supposed to be submitted to Google 2 weeks prior, so they can review. 2. The authors submitted it externally before the review was returned. 3. Google deci…

I think one in important point is that she submitted the paper the day before the deadline when 2 weeks is usually required for review. It was approved then, but after the review process worked out she was asked to retract her paper.
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