She just retweeted: "They (tech companies) stay coming after black women." https://twitter.com/chenaichair/status/1334384579596197889 The casualness to make this now about race/gender as well when that wasn't even her inital argument. I can't imagine working in this kind of environment. It must be exhausting, always having to tread on eggshells or end up on a twitter firing squad. Not being able to argue points, with…
[Redacted, since I don't want to fuel speculation] It always was (also) about race/gender! That said, I don't know Timnit, and I don't know her specific circumstances... I believe that Google is full of people who wants to solve these problems, but somehow leadership fails to capitalize on that. It might only be a few bad apples in the leadership, but each one wields a huge amount of power (hiring and firing people).…
Ethical AI researcher Timnit Gebru fired from Google
201–210 of 310 posts
Re: Ethical AI researcher Timnit Gebru fired from Google
#202Additional discussion over at /r/MachineLearning [1]. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/MachineLearning/comments/k5ryva/d_e...
Re: Ethical AI researcher Timnit Gebru fired from Google
#203Earlier quoted context omitted.
Damore was an engineer whose continued employment would open the company up to a risk of lawsuit. Gebru was an ethicist who was willing to resign over some deep concerns. Presumably ethical concerns. We don't know much more about Gebru's situation, but they're different enough that it's not a useful comparison.
Damore kept his memo internal and did not circulate it widely. (It was leaked to the public in a calculated attempt to pressure Google into firing Damore.) As recently as last week, while she was still a Google employee, Gebru publicly accused her “privileged White men” bosses of racial bias: >Nothing like a bunch of privileged White men trying to squash research by marginalized communities for marginalized communiti…
Really? I never heard this, and I followed the Damore drama very closely at the time. It's an interesting detail; do you have a source?
Re: Ethical AI researcher Timnit Gebru fired from Google
#204Earlier quoted context omitted.
Google historically tolerates generic criticism of the firm or its actions. Gebru routinely makes slanderous and offensive allegations against specific individuals, not Google as a whole. That said, Garrett makes clear his ideological sympathies on Twitter. Undoubtably comments like this one don't endear him to his management chain: When @computerfemme was fired, the VP of security at Google Cloud sent out an email t…
Let us pretend together that you are the VP of security at Google. I’d suggest you take a stroll through Matthew’s twitter page for the past year or so and mark down everything you find seriously concerning and in your view making him incapable of performing his job. You might find quite a bit, and you might think “I can’t believe the real VP of security at Google hasn’t fired him yet!” And yet, somehow, he’s not eno…
Re: Ethical AI researcher Timnit Gebru fired from Google
#205Heh, considering how popular Jeff Dean is at Google, she doesn't have a chance here, even before LeCunn incident. Better suck it up and go somewhere.
Great stance to take bruh.
Re: Ethical AI researcher Timnit Gebru fired from Google
#206Earlier quoted context omitted.
Must be a US specific thing as I do not see this in EU corporations. I assume there is also a 'Google Brain Men and Allies'? Why not just a 'Google Brain and Allies'? Or does that also exist?
I would assume that there isn't a 'Google Brain Men and Allies' affinity group. "Google Brain" does likely have its own general distro where standard work-related topics are discussed. At the hazard of becoming 'political' and triggering people, affinity groups are typically created for groups that have traditionally been underserved, marginalized, or have special considerations. As a cis male, I don't really see the…
Is there an affinity group for the overwhelming majority of "Latinx" people who don't use or like this term?
Re: Ethical AI researcher Timnit Gebru fired from Google
#207Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is a discussion to be had here but it's not possible in public because of the escalation of the topic. This is also not the best thread to be having it. Since everyone else is just saying "you don't get it" without explaining what "it" is, I will provide some brief avenues of exploration. Because they are brief, they will be coarse and imperfect, and aiming to give you directional assistance on the topic. So wi…
Thanks for the additional detail, but those all still boil down to dataset eventually, right? Those sound more like "yes, and" additions than the "no, you're racist" shitfight we saw.
For instance, if I were to champion metric A which purports to measure performance on human faces but it really only rewards performance on Senegalese then models that do better in general may not be recognized for being better.
In an isolated sense this is not a problem. However if the mainstream is that all metrics that are taken seriously are dataset-biased then we'll have an environment where the models will be trained on biased datasets in order to be successful.
For instance if everyone uses LFW to determine how good facial recognition is, then Senegalese fine-tuned facial recognition tech will not be recognized as being good at facial recognition.
So the argument is that dataset bias is built-in to our approach to the problem. I, personally, think that this isn't malice. We need benchmarks to judge approaches against each other. Benchmarks always have a first mover advantage and a massive path dependence issue. The first benchmarks aiming for things on humans do not reflect humanity accurately. These benchmarks became standard among the community. To be taken seriously you have to do well on benchmarks that are standard in the community. Dataset bias is then natural in newer approaches because the approaches are judged against how good they are against the inaccurate (if you will) benchmarks.
So no one need be racist or anything for the end result of the field to end up being discriminatory.
I don't think a successful approach is to call people racist over this. After all, it isn't malice that guides them. The discrimination comes from the sort of historical accident that has North facing up on a map. And no individual is really racist. It's sort of like the Bechdel test: no movie is crappy simply because it doesn't have two girls talking to each other, but if very few movies have two girls talking to each other about something other than boys, then it makes you think "hmmm, why's that the case".
Re: Ethical AI researcher Timnit Gebru fired from Google
#208Earlier quoted context omitted.
[Redacted, since I don't want to fuel speculation] It always was (also) about race/gender! That said, I don't know Timnit, and I don't know her specific circumstances... I believe that Google is full of people who wants to solve these problems, but somehow leadership fails to capitalize on that. It might only be a few bad apples in the leadership, but each one wields a huge amount of power (hiring and firing people).…
> diversity OKRs These really exist? How do you know when you've reached perfect diversity? I'm honestly curious. Is it based on population distributions? What would be an example diversity OKR
Re: Ethical AI researcher Timnit Gebru fired from Google
#209Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's pretty common in large corporations to have 'affinity groups', which discuss topics that affect the group. I don't work at Google; I work at Amazon. I can only speak about my experience, but it's likely the same at Google. You don't have to be a part of an affinity group to be a member of the mailing list (that's where the ..and Allies portion comes into play). The 'Google Brain Women and Allies' mailing list is…
Must be a US specific thing as I do not see this in EU corporations. I assume there is also a 'Google Brain Men and Allies'? Why not just a 'Google Brain and Allies'? Or does that also exist?
Re: Ethical AI researcher Timnit Gebru fired from Google
#210Heh, considering how popular Jeff Dean is at Google, she doesn't have a chance here, even before LeCunn incident. Better suck it up and go somewhere.
Read: her concerns about entrenched privilege are actually valid and you fully condone them? Great stance to take bruh.
But judging from her tweets this is not happening, bruh.