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Pfizer Covid vaccine approved for use next week in UK

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Re: Pfizer Covid vaccine approved for use next week in UK

#731

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't seem to fully grasp the importance of free speech is and what it has done for the western society. What you are advocating is supressing speech, however clever little reasons you might have tried to find for it. None of the problems you described come even close to the clusterfuck of hurt we are going to experience in the society (and that other societies did and still do) if we are going to start supressin…

First of all, there is nowhere the concept of free speech, there are ALWAYS limits. Europe has more limits than America but both have limits. Second, as any right free speech comes with certain responsibilities. My point is education people in using their right appropriately. Lets get all Spiderman, great power comes great responsability. The right to free speech comes with the responsability to know when to shut up.…

I know more about human rights than you. Stop talking.

^ That's what you sound like.

Re: Pfizer Covid vaccine approved for use next week in UK

#732
post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with British people's opinions of the NHS is that they routinely conflate the NHS with healthcare. (BTW, I am British myself). You're doing the same thing here. The NHS is not healthcare. The NHS is not doctors or nurses or life saving operations. The NHS is not hospitals. All first world countries have these things, but none have an NHS except Britain. The NHS is a bureaucracy that manages resource alloc…

The principle of "free at the point of use" is the critical factor in the NHS; while other countries manage to achieve that with different organisational structures. (4) is critical. Any whiff of ineligibility by payment is completely unacceptable, and rightly so, or we'd end up with the US disaster. From a political point of view, we have to defend the existing system because otherwise the US one will be forced on u…

Nobody in UK politics will give us the Swiss system

How do you know? Nobody talks about alternatives to the NHS in the UK, even though it's an obvious topic that should be talked about all the time (the UK's a highly visible exception to the consensus of other rich countries and that would normally provoke debate). You don't actually know what the alternatives to the NHS are because any attempt to be honest about the system's problems are immediately met with a horde of leftists yelling things like "Tory propaganda", and insisting that anyone who criticises the NHS inexplicably hates nurses/babies/life saving operations, etc. They successfully shut down political debate every time.

It's entirely plausible that if there was a serious, honest and rational debate in the UK about healthcare then the country would move towards a European system. Why not? The UK aligns with European neighbours far more often than it does with the USA and that will likely continue even after Brexit.

Re: Bupa. Aren't you agreeing with me here, then? The private healthcare sector in the UK is anaemic compared to other countries because it's so hard to compete against "free". They end up trying to offer slightly better quality around the edges. They can offer complicated or expensive operations too, but people are already being forced to pay the government for them regardless of their own personal evaluation of quality or need, so hardly any market exists. Bupa is a minnow compared to its equivalents in the rest of the world, and how many competitors to Bupa can you name? The British healthcare market exists forgotten in the shadows because the NHS drowns it.

[Unpleasant facts] Unsourced Tory propaganda.

This is what I mean. It's not propaganda, it's actual reality that Labour and leftists live in denial of. Literally the first result for [nhs maintenance backlogs] is this:

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/blog/2019/10/ERIC-data-nhs-esta....

"In 2018/19, the total cost of tackling the backlog of maintenance issues in NHS trusts rose by 8.4 per cent to £6.5 billion. And of this over half, £3.4 billion, was for issues that present a high or significant risk to patients and staff (see Figure 1). Now, if these numbers don’t quicken the pulse, a little more context is needed. High-risk issues are identified where repairing or replacing NHS facilities or equipment ‘must be addressed with urgent priority in order to prevent catastrophic failure, major disruption to clinical services or deficiencies in safety liable to cause serious injury and/or prosecution’"

Or you can read about it direct from Parliament (see section 2):

https://committees.parliament.uk/publications/1779/documents...

Note that this backlog is just to restore physical objects to an "acceptable state" (quoting the Parliament document here). It's not to actually make the NHS better than it used to be, just the cost to stop it being so degraded it's actually dangerous: "One director of an NHS trust told me that broken gutters in his hospital lead to water seeping through the walls when it rains heavily. This happens so frequently that nurses now give ‘water updates’ in their shift handovers, so incoming team members know when they will have to start unplugging electrical equipment".

That was the backlog before an epidemic of bad data and advice from government run bureaucracies destroyed the economy that has to pay for it. The government no longer has any financial strength left to tackle this issue, and risks triggering serious inflation by trying to print its way out.

There are many other places you can read about this. The NHS is decaying away because its managers are terminally incapable of making the difficult decisions management requires. Given a choice between paying down their maintenance backlog or giving nurses a pay rise, they do the latter every single time even when commanded by ministers not to. Sometimes they even fail to spend the money they were given and end up with a "surplus", just through managerial incompetence.

That's not "Tory propaganda". It's reality, and exactly how the Soviet union looked at the end of its days.

Re: Pfizer Covid vaccine approved for use next week in UK

#733
post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just Google it, it's not hard. One of the first few results for [nhs using only public labs for pcr tests april] is this: https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-four-issues-that-hav... "Part of the reason the UK has had difficulty in meeting the 100,000 tests daily goal was because of its focus on centralised testing centres. In contrast to the robust and wide-reaching testing programmes in Germany and South Korea,…

> the UK government initially decided So, not an NHS decision but a political decision by the relevant cabinet minister? That changes the answer. It's important to distinguish between decisions made by "the NHS" (to the extent that this isn't just individual trusts, or NICE, or whatever) and political decisions made by the government which are ideological.

The decision was made by Public Health England. But the NHS is the government, regardless of how it's branded or how it arranges itself internally.

Re: Pfizer Covid vaccine approved for use next week in UK

#734
post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mandatory health insurance. Look at the Swiss type system or really more or less any modern healthcare system. Pro-NHS Brits love to compare it exclusively to the USA, but most countries do far better than both.

That's not an alternative, health insurance is mandatory anyway by virtue of us being made of flesh – the alternative is going bankrupt due to having no leverage after getting treatment for anything.

No it isn't. Healthcare isn't infinitely expensive, the world is full of people who can pay cash for healthcare (or take an insurance policy with a very high excess which approximates the same thing).

Re: Pfizer Covid vaccine approved for use next week in UK

#735
post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not an alternative, health insurance is mandatory anyway by virtue of us being made of flesh – the alternative is going bankrupt due to having no leverage after getting treatment for anything.

No it isn't. Healthcare isn't infinitely expensive, the world is full of people who can pay cash for healthcare (or take an insurance policy with a very high excess which approximates the same thing).

>the world is full of people who can pay cash for healthcare

Are you sure about that? The median income in the US is less than $33k.

Re: Pfizer Covid vaccine approved for use next week in UK

#736

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it isn't. Healthcare isn't infinitely expensive, the world is full of people who can pay cash for healthcare (or take an insurance policy with a very high excess which approximates the same thing).

>the world is full of people who can pay cash for healthcare Are you sure about that? The median income in the US is less than $33k.

"Full of people" is an idiom, it means there are lots of them. It doesn't mean all of them. There are lots of cheap medical interventions and lots of people who earn more than $33k a year.

Re: Pfizer Covid vaccine approved for use next week in UK

#737
post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point, the autoimmune dangers of vaccines are well understood but the autoimmune dangers of COVID-19 aren't. Doesn't that mean it's safer to avoid the vaccine, until that situation changes? In fact it's exactly the opposite of what many people here are saying, considering only themselves and not others, but using their own logic!

I dunno. I have an autoimmune disease. I was COVID-19 positive without any symptoms. It has been some time now. Everything is fine. With regarding to the vaccine: I do not want to risk it, when I know that I went through COVID-19 without symptoms and may just do it again and again after 6 months? They say I have 6 months of immunity.

What if you're required to take it to re-enter normal society, like going to restaurants and such?

Re: Pfizer Covid vaccine approved for use next week in UK

#738
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK has put a lot of effort into speeding up the roll-out of these vaccinations in general. Enough that it basically leaked the fact some kind of Covid vaccine was coming a few weeks in advance because so many people were involved in the pre-planning and the timescale was so aggressive.

You make it sound like a bad thing. It was never a secret the vaccines were coming and as each day of delay means 5000 people dying I think putting a lot of effort into speeding up the rollout is pretty well worth it.

Ummm, latest daily UK deaths "with Covid" is 414, not 5000.

Ref: https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk

Re: Pfizer Covid vaccine approved for use next week in UK

#739

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so? It's a body of land surrounded by a body of water!

The United Kingdom is made up of the island of Great Britain and a part of the island of Ireland (Northern Ireland). It also includes many other smaller islands You're probably thinking of Great Britain by itself, which is the island containing the main parts of the countries of Scotland, England, and Wales.

[deleted]

Re: Pfizer Covid vaccine approved for use next week in UK

#740
post #681

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love it if people questioning vaccine safety had actual numbers, instead of empty platitudes like '>50% of people who get COVID don't die'. (And if they made an apples to apples comparison with the numbers of not vaccinating. They never do, though, because the numbers don't help their argument .) Most people who play one round of Russian Roulette don't die, either.

Look, I know for a fact that I was positive before. I was asymptomatic. I have an autoimmune disease. I do not want the vaccine for myself. Does the vaccine actually stop the spreading of COVID-19? Because according to other posts, we do not know that it does, all we know is that people would take it for their own safety, but do not know if it actually stops transmission, in which case we are just talking about wheth…

I ask for numbers... And I get an anecdote, and a personal opinion.

You are doing a fantastic job of proving my point.

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