Ethical AI researcher Timnit Gebru fired from Google • Hacker News Board

Re: Ethical AI researcher Timnit Gebru fired from Google

#101

Post by spicyramen » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 8:51 AM UTC

tolbish wrote: post #66

spicyramen wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fake news, I'm underrepresented and I never felt like one, I hate playing the minority card and I just focus on being a top performer. Some teams at Google cry all day specially non-eng folks playing the minority card because their work can't be quantified. So they mix up their lack of skills with race BS. I was a SWE and was actually pay very fairly for the work I did, that was my presentation card.

> I'm underrepresented and I never felt like one What does this mean? That you don't feel like the race you actually are because you don't play the race card? I hope I misread that and there is a more charitable explanation.

There is only one human race right? I don't see people in colors sorry

Re: Ethical AI researcher Timnit Gebru fired from Google

#102

Post by ramblerman » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 9:00 AM UTC

She just retweeted: "They (tech companies) stay coming after black women." https://twitter.com/chenaichair/status/1334384579596197889

The casualness to make this now about race/gender as well when that wasn't even her inital argument.

I can't imagine working in this kind of environment. It must be exhausting, always having to tread on eggshells or end up on a twitter firing squad. Not being able to argue points, without it ending up being about race/gender.

Do we really have to pretend that someone blessed to be working on AI at google with the greatest minds on something so exciting is disadvantaged compared to the rest of us?

Re: Ethical AI researcher Timnit Gebru fired from Google

#103

Post by PeterStuer » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 9:05 AM UTC

trynewideas wrote: post #11

germanjoey wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's "Brain Women and Allies"?

Google Brain is a deep learning artificial intelligence research team at Google. Google Brain Women and Allies is a mailing list within the team.

Are mailing lists in Google gender segregated?

Re: Ethical AI researcher Timnit Gebru fired from Google

#104

Post by _iyig » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 9:08 AM UTC

GolDDranks wrote: post #99

apsec112 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no legal requirement for a termination process in the US. A company may choose to give notice, but with a few rare exceptions, they can fire you on the spot at any time for any reason if they want to.

Is that true? Is there not any laws protecting the employees or setting time limits for the notice and the actual end of the contract?

In many U.S. states to include California, employment is legally considered “at-will.” This means the employer can terminate the employment agreement at any time and for nearly any reason.

You cannot fire someone for membership in a protected class (race, religion, sexual orientation, etc) or participation in protected activities like reporting an employer’s violations of the law, but it’s difficult to prove intent in such cases.

There are exceptions for unionized workplaces with collective bargaining agreements. Employers in those situations cannot fire employees without “just cause.” Google R&D is not unionized, however.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment

Re: Ethical AI researcher Timnit Gebru fired from Google

#105

Post by FreekNortier » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 9:09 AM UTC

Off topic but I thought Timnit was a male name.

Re: Ethical AI researcher Timnit Gebru fired from Google

#106

Post by jiuahweruihawi » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 9:28 AM UTC

FreekNortier wrote: post #105

Off topic but I thought Timnit was a male name.

I was curious so I looked it up. According to Timnit Gebru's Wikipedia page she was born in Ethiopia but her parents are from Eritrea. I can't find it again but I saw something somewhere about "Timnit" meaning "wish" in Tigrinya, a language spoken in Eritrea and northern Ethiopia.

Here's a tweet from Timnit Gebru mentioning that she speaks Tigrinya, presumably natively: https://twitter.com/timnitgebru/status/1078042727936376833?l...

So it appears to be a Tigrinya name. TIL.

Re: Ethical AI researcher Timnit Gebru fired from Google

#107

Post by jiuahweruihawi » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 9:33 AM UTC

There's so much context missing here. What did she post on Google Brain? What were the demands she made to Google? Are these in the public domain?

(If they're not public then I imagine they'll be leaked eventually if this gets enough media attention. Are we witnessing the opening act of Google's next enormous Damore-style PR clusterfuck? Grab your popcorn.)

Re: Ethical AI researcher Timnit Gebru fired from Google

#108

Post by jiuahweruihawi » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 9:38 AM UTC

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #64

veridies wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd never heard of this fight before, so I just looked it up. My interpretation is that he made that claim, Gebru responded by claiming that that was an overly reductionist view of things (given, presumably, the fact that biased assumptions could affect the coded assumptions as well as the training data), he maintained his opinion, and she felt frustrated that she didn't feel she was being listened to. I did not see…

In Gebru's final thread on the topic ( https://twitter.com/timnitGebru/status/1276326634195259392 ), she lectured LeCun how to give a proper apology, stated that he was engaging in "pattern of marginalization" causing "incredible harm", and instructed him to educate himself and listen to Black and Brown people before speaking to her again.

That's a shame, she only needed to add "lived experience" and "mansplaining" for me to fill in my "woke bigot weaponising her race and gender to shut down a valid discussion" bingo sheet.

Re: Ethical AI researcher Timnit Gebru fired from Google

#109

Post by jiuahweruihawi » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 9:39 AM UTC

dshpala wrote: post #34

Heh, considering how popular Jeff Dean is at Google, she doesn't have a chance here, even before LeCunn incident. Better suck it up and go somewhere.

I'm sure she'll make a good asset to any company that wants a totally dysfunctional office culture where everyone is terrified at every moment of doing the slightest thing to upset the wokes.

Re: Ethical AI researcher Timnit Gebru fired from Google

#110

Post by jiuahweruihawi » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 9:40 AM UTC

thebladerunner wrote: post #95

thundergolfer wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Says she deliberately attempts to cast LeCunn as a racist is a very uncharitable framing, but putting that aside, it doesn’t actually seem reasonable to assume she picked a fight. We have no idea what was in the email.

She has been advancing her agenda for a while by strategically picking fights, and winning them because she's been on the right side of a political wave and knew how to ride it. Then she got blinded by her own success and overplayed her hand, a classic cautionary tale. Fun fact: many people, not necessarily managers, won't be shedding tears seeing her go.

Do you work for Google?