Live data from Hacker News

Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

theverge.com

611–620 of 772 posts

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As tech workers, likely making American wages, many of the folks here would be better served paying a congressperson and joining a PAC than they would be by paying union dues.

Don't kid yourself. Your employer will always be better connected and more influential politically than you, unless you organize. You'll be fired for donating to that PAC if it's actually becoming controversial and effective. Fortunately, unions have the same status in campaign contribution laws as PACs, so your best bet to do some lobbying as a worker is to join a union and use it as a PAC.

I watched my parents suffer throughout their careers because their Unions were politically toxic and also deigned it necessary to keep their wages below market in order to apply pressure on the employer to raise the wages of others in the bargaining unit. As though a lineman and a telecontrol technologist are similarly skilled and trained.

My father spent the better part of a decade trying to hire his replacement because the union wage was so attrociously below market for his labour.

And then the politics, favouritism, bullying and abuse that occurs under a union; because the shop steward et al formed a social clique to get themselves and their buddies the best hours and best positions.

My two siblings went to work in unions and now regail me with similar tales.

No, I'm happy working for small and independent game studios and negotiating for myself, thanks. I happily donate the money to political organizations that would otherwsie be used to pay union dues.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#612

True story, a person I know who was offered a job at Google got the employment agreement (prior to arriving which was pretty standard at the time) and read that bit about "allowing Google to protect it's IP by installing a rootkit" and they red lined it to change it "May only access Google related information and no personal information." When they showed up HR started with "But that isn't how we use it, we would nev…

I guess the person didn't really want the job. If they wanted it, they could have just gotten a company phone and laptop, used them only for work, and kept them in the office. Company devices are occasionally stolen for their internal data: emails, docs, code, and config. This data can be useful to investors and competitors. Companies hire expensive people to limit the amount of data exposed in theft incidents. Under…

> When they showed up HR started with "But that isn't how we use it, we would never access your personal data."

So, what, was HR lying?

More to the point, Google shouldn't be putting critical business information on personal devices, that's a security risk. If they're that worried about it, they should be issuing every employee a separate phone.

"We don't trust you enough to have your own device without a rootkit, but we somehow still think it's a good idea to send sensitive company emails to somebody's random custom-ROM 3rd-party Android phone or Macbook, which might have who-knows-what 3rd-party malware installed on it."

Why would you want to put company secrets on the same device that somebody is using to play Pokemon Go, Among Us, and to connect to whatever IoT disaster that they've just been gifted for Christmas?

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#613

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it great when even something as huge and life-changing as a job is subject to a contract of adhesion with no negotiation allowed? I'm sure glad to live in such a free country with great worker rights. (Sarcasm intended.)

Negotiation doesn’t mean that you get your way and they agree to your demands Sounds like both parties had a hard line on what they would accept

I think the takeaway is that the hard line for Google is being able to rootkit your phone

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#614

True story, a person I know who was offered a job at Google got the employment agreement (prior to arriving which was pretty standard at the time) and read that bit about "allowing Google to protect it's IP by installing a rootkit" and they red lined it to change it "May only access Google related information and no personal information." When they showed up HR started with "But that isn't how we use it, we would nev…

Google is the expert at scaling, and that probably applies to hiring as well. If someone takes too long to get through onboarding, kicking them out is preferable to allowing it to disrupt onboarding other engineers. Would you waste time trying to debug an oddly broken kubernetes node, or just drop it and bring up a new one?

This is probably the most overlooked comment here. I'm guessing that Google just DGAF about any individual employee. They're not short of candidates, so why waste even a tiny amount of time customizing their contract terms when they can just revoke it and move to the next in line.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#615

True story, a person I know who was offered a job at Google got the employment agreement (prior to arriving which was pretty standard at the time) and read that bit about "allowing Google to protect it's IP by installing a rootkit" and they red lined it to change it "May only access Google related information and no personal information." When they showed up HR started with "But that isn't how we use it, we would nev…

I think the very existence of such a person would be giant trouble maker red flag.

Wouldn't be surprised if they wanted to get rid of him as soon as they noticed it.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you bring a personal laptop to work?

In case you need to do something personal that can't wait until you get home. More of an issue with a longer commute. Might have to pop down to a local coffee shop or use the personal phone's hotspot to avoid using corp net. I've had to check an account while at work to deal with my kid attempting to pay college tuition with one of my credit cards. Also looked up records so he could call the DMV to rectify something.…

It’s this sort of thing that makes me really appreciate my cell-connected personal iPad, with keyboard cover. It’s a “personal laptop” in 50% of the volume that I can ~always have with me.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#617

True story, a person I know who was offered a job at Google got the employment agreement (prior to arriving which was pretty standard at the time) and read that bit about "allowing Google to protect it's IP by installing a rootkit" and they red lined it to change it "May only access Google related information and no personal information." When they showed up HR started with "But that isn't how we use it, we would nev…

I'm not. Legal doesn't want to deal with everyone having a different employment contract. Google has always leaned towards being ok with a ton of false negatives to avoid false positives. They'd rather give up 10 good hires than make one bad one. This is just an extension of that. They don't want any exceptions and they aren't willing to make any.

> different employment contracts

Then make all contracts explicit with such a fair statement? How many employees would one imagine, objecting to it?

Even if there are contract variations, Google has resources and talent to manage it with tools.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. And not just two phones but two laptops as well, unless the employer forbids bringing a personal one at work (which would be a reason to dump them in my case). Leave work stuff to work hardware and never ever use company assets for anything personal. A friend of mine who works for a big multinational telco (unrelated to Google) installed an open source tool on his company laptop; when he connected back on the c…

Why would you bring a personal laptop to work?

I sometimes need to do time critical things, or use sites or services, and I'm never giving personal credentials of any kind to client/employer hardware.

My personal laptop comes everywhere with me. Doesn't yours?

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#619
post #375
post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isnt this job switching 101? you don't have a new job until you've signed. Your notice doesn't happen until you have signed.

"Signed" isn't what you think it is. You can sign the offer letter, and possibly a couple other things, but most companies will also have more documents that you must sign on your first day of employment, and won't give them to you before then.

That hasn't been my experience in the US. When I joined, I signed everything along with the offer letter. Full 10-15 pages of contract. Nothing to sign on the first day.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#620
post #40

One thing that happens in SV is: * Employer says "hey, we have all these convenient corporate app, wouldn't it be nice to be able to check work messages and work docs on your mobile? Just install our app to "corp-ify" your phone" * Employer now views your mobile device as containing sensitive company IP and therefore they have the right to snoop on anything on your phone. If you install corp on your phone, Google vie…

100% agree. People laugh at me why I carry two phones but this is the main reason. If my employer needs me to have a mobile phone they are paying for separate device and plan. It’s a little silly I need to carry 2 phones around but it makes my life so much more convenient. Unknown call on my work phone guess I’ll answer. If it’s on my personal then it’s spam. Leave company, no need to update or port my number. Want t…

Anyone who laughs at a professional keeping a physical security barrier between work and personal data isn't a professional themselves and can be safely ignored.

I usually have four phones: Work, Personal, Personal (other country sim), emergency backup (in a buddy pouch, powered off).

Post reply on HN