Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

theverge.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

601–610 of 772 posts

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#601

Post by the-rc »

rachelbythebay wrote: post #541
the-rc wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you signed your agreement, that Android technology didn't exist, so reserving themselves the right to get root on your devices accessing corporate information was the closest, yet very blunt, approximation. Personal devices were highly discouraged or even forbidden for a long time, but employees kept asking about them, for the convenience. These use cases and internal dogfooding were major factors in the eventua…

That doesn't track. By the time they pulled this crap (including the "you didn't sign it, would you sign it again?" and it turned out to be different), we had been given at least one Android phone (ADP1) and maybe the second as well (N1).

I dogfooded pretty much everything from the G1 to the N5, Xoom included. Until Lollipop or Marshmallow arrived, we were discouraged or forbidden from having corporate accounts on personal phones, because there weren't the necessary Blackberry-style features yet, e.g. remote wiping. I remember Honeycomb (the Xoom) having only encryption, but no wiping. At some point you could add your work account as the primary on your personal gift phones (dogfood ones were a different story), but that meant that the device got bricked when you left the company, forcing you to a factory reset — and there was still no good isolation.

I definitely had my personal account as the primary on my N5 along with a work profile and I believe that's the first device/OS combo where it was feasible, if you ignored the annoying duplicate app icons in the launcher. The first truly "tolerated" personal devices were probably the Christmas gift Chromebooks from a few years earlier, as long as you used Yubikeys.

Didn't the policies even predate Android? They definitely were there well before Lollipop. Unless they were introduced post-Aurora, in 2010 — i.e. in the N1/Eclair days, keeping the phone vintage theme.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#602

Post by AshWolfy »

oh_sigh wrote: post #467
black_puppydog wrote: post #262

The whole thread here seems to revolve around whether or not Spiers should have been fired for what she did. And while I have a clear opinion on that and had fun sparring with y'all here about it, can we also talk about how unionization is actually something that we need to think about as a profession / group of professions? The days where "being in IT" made you a rockstar that could command a premium in individual n…

Can you tell me concrete ways in which the average googler SWE's life will improve if they join a union?

Union workers have better pay, better benefits, more job security, etc

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#603

Post by AshWolfy »

alecco wrote: post #462
black_puppydog wrote: post #262

The whole thread here seems to revolve around whether or not Spiers should have been fired for what she did. And while I have a clear opinion on that and had fun sparring with y'all here about it, can we also talk about how unionization is actually something that we need to think about as a profession / group of professions? The days where "being in IT" made you a rockstar that could command a premium in individual n…

In theory, I would love an IT union. But in practice it's likely to turn into another extortion racket by a small cabal of sleazy fat men. And they will stay in power appealing to the lowest of the low flattening salaries and destroying meritocracy. With sadness I have to say, no thanks.

Unions are democracies, unions only get that way when people dont engage

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#604

Post by sandworm101 »

discordance wrote: post #450
sandworm101 wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> People laugh at me why I carry two phones but this is the main reason. I carry three. One is from work, the other is from a different department in that same work. They both insist I have a particular type of phone running particular software. But work never calls me on those phones. They always call my personal phone.

Do you accept work calls on your personal number? - if so that’s sounds more like training issue.

Ill bring that up with my commander.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#605

Post by Ar-Curunir »

renewiltord wrote: post #466
black_puppydog wrote: post #262

The whole thread here seems to revolve around whether or not Spiers should have been fired for what she did. And while I have a clear opinion on that and had fun sparring with y'all here about it, can we also talk about how unionization is actually something that we need to think about as a profession / group of professions? The days where "being in IT" made you a rockstar that could command a premium in individual n…

People should be allowed to unionize but I'll oppose it at every front. Because mass power means mass power that can be turned against me. 2016 taught me something. There are a large contingent of anti-immigrants out there. Should you allow the creation of a mob, a day will come when the populists will take control of it. In moments, the mob can break generations of integration. The best defence against it is prevent…

lol so every individual should stand alone, while the employer (Google in this case, but mega corps in general) will bend the government to steamroll your rights.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#606

Post by Ar-Curunir »

austhrow743 wrote: post #560
postingpals wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was planning to argue with this, but I only feel sorry that you see something as historically useful as unionising in such a light.

Do you think a tech union would be in favour of immigrant labour?

Depends entirely on the union and who is part of it.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#607

Post by Ar-Curunir »

oh_sigh wrote: post #467
black_puppydog wrote: post #262

The whole thread here seems to revolve around whether or not Spiers should have been fired for what she did. And while I have a clear opinion on that and had fun sparring with y'all here about it, can we also talk about how unionization is actually something that we need to think about as a profession / group of professions? The days where "being in IT" made you a rockstar that could command a premium in individual n…

Can you tell me concrete ways in which the average googler SWE's life will improve if they join a union?

You don't get fired like this?

https://twitter.com/timnitGebru/status/1334341991795142667

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#608

Post by ChuckMcM »

joshuamorton wrote: post #254
ChuckMcM wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh I "understood" it, California is a "Right to Work" state and signing the agreement was clearly a requirement of working and by not signing the unchanged agreement, it was a voluntary action of elimination etc etc. So Google was well within their rights to rescind their job offer as they did. That said, it was at a time where Google was complaining bitterly about how hard it was to hire engineers, and their much va…

California is not a Right to work state. It is an At-will employment state (as are all states). "Right to Work" laws concern union contracts requiring all employees to pay union dues.

Thanks for the correction!

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#609

Post by sudosysgen »

dleslie wrote: post #523
geofft wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's my question for everyone on this thread: what are you going to do about it? My rough guesses of what you could do: - unionize your shop / commit to working at unionized shops (addresses the power imbalance between individual employees and the employer by treating employees as a group) - use the power you have as an employee to drive change at your workplace, if you're one of those employees who is well-treated…

As tech workers, likely making American wages, many of the folks here would be better served paying a congressperson and joining a PAC than they would be by paying union dues.

Don't kid yourself. Your employer will always be better connected and more influential politically than you, unless you organize.

You'll be fired for donating to that PAC if it's actually becoming controversial and effective. Fortunately, unions have the same status in campaign contribution laws as PACs, so your best bet to do some lobbying as a worker is to join a union and use it as a PAC.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#610

Post by nmfisher »

cj wrote: post #324
DoofusOfDeath wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised that the parent post was downvoted, because AFAICT it's a valid comparison. Is there something I'm missing?

In the context of starting a job at Google, I highly doubt you sign your employment contracts the day you show up for work. Typically employment contracts are signed and settled well before you enter the building as an employee. I would be surprised if the OP’s anecdote regarding the Googler pulled on the 1st day is in line with reality. Edit: apparently I’m wrong, the downvotes were deserved! I run hiring at my comp…

This does happen regularly, and employees should never do it (for precisely this reason).

Don't quit your job, move cities, etc etc without a signed contract.

Post reply on HN