Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges • Hacker News Board

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#541

Post by rachelbythebay » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 2:21 AM UTC

the-rc wrote: post #456

ChuckMcM wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that in the Employment Agreement that Google made me sign when I worked there (I don't know if it is still like this) Google specifically called out that they reserve the right to rootkit your personal devices that access "Google's corporate information" (basically that means accessing your work email because you needed to use your corp laptop if you wanted to access the internal network) But I agree that if t…

When you signed your agreement, that Android technology didn't exist, so reserving themselves the right to get root on your devices accessing corporate information was the closest, yet very blunt, approximation. Personal devices were highly discouraged or even forbidden for a long time, but employees kept asking about them, for the convenience. These use cases and internal dogfooding were major factors in the eventua…

That doesn't track. By the time they pulled this crap (including the "you didn't sign it, would you sign it again?" and it turned out to be different), we had been given at least one Android phone (ADP1) and maybe the second as well (N1).

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#542

Post by austhrow743 » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 2:21 AM UTC

MereInterest wrote: post #203

jedberg wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not. Legal doesn't want to deal with everyone having a different employment contract. Google has always leaned towards being ok with a ton of false negatives to avoid false positives. They'd rather give up 10 good hires than make one bad one. This is just an extension of that. They don't want any exceptions and they aren't willing to make any.

Isn't it great when even something as huge and life-changing as a job is subject to a contract of adhesion with no negotiation allowed? I'm sure glad to live in such a free country with great worker rights. (Sarcasm intended.)

People absolutely negotiate successfully with Google. New hires fresh out of uni do. Tens of thousands of more dollars.

It just seems that invading their employees privacy is table stakes for them.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#543

Post by morty_s » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 2:22 AM UTC

ditonal wrote: post #40

One thing that happens in SV is: * Employer says "hey, we have all these convenient corporate app, wouldn't it be nice to be able to check work messages and work docs on your mobile? Just install our app to "corp-ify" your phone" * Employer now views your mobile device as containing sensitive company IP and therefore they have the right to snoop on anything on your phone. If you install corp on your phone, Google vie…

Oh wow, is this not common knowledge?

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#544

Post by dalbasal » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 2:23 AM UTC

brundolf wrote: post #469

black_puppydog wrote: post #262

The whole thread here seems to revolve around whether or not Spiers should have been fired for what she did. And while I have a clear opinion on that and had fun sparring with y'all here about it, can we also talk about how unionization is actually something that we need to think about as a profession / group of professions? The days where "being in IT" made you a rockstar that could command a premium in individual n…

Regardless of whether or not IT professionals should be worried about their salaries, labor power isn't just about compensation. Unions could negotiate for better parental leave (which is still atrocious throughout the US, even in relatively cushy jobs). Unions could empower tech workers to actually push back on unethical policies and projects, as opposed to right now where they get to make a statement and then nothi…

>Organization is about changing a power balance; it's not just about money.

True. Not just... but money is a big factor.

A lot of the interest in organizing big tech is related to profitability. Theres a lot to bargain for.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#545

Post by joshuamorton » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 2:23 AM UTC

qmarchi wrote: post #257

YokoZar wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I remember that case. Yeah - she deserved to be fired. She used an internal security tool to push her personal political views. How could that not be a fire-able offense? If you read the next sentence in the linked article, the NLRB disagrees: Spiers was fired after she created a pop-up for Google employees visiting the IRI Consultants website. “Googlers have the right to participate in protected concerted activiti…

The trick is that there's an auditable trail of things that she did. Notably, she bypassed restriction in our code change system which would've required review. The policy around bypassing that is explicitly to only be used in emergencies. Again, reasonable for her to be fired.

> Notably, she bypassed restriction in our code change system which would've required review.

[Googler, opinions my own]

This is not true. The code changes in question were done normally. The policy "exemptions" were in regard to the rollout of the resulting binary, which are well described here[0].

[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25280028

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#546

Post by claudeganon » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 2:23 AM UTC

oh_sigh wrote: post #535

brundolf wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of whether or not IT professionals should be worried about their salaries, labor power isn't just about compensation. Unions could negotiate for better parental leave (which is still atrocious throughout the US, even in relatively cushy jobs). Unions could empower tech workers to actually push back on unethical policies and projects, as opposed to right now where they get to make a statement and then nothi…

Since this article is about a union for Googlers, let's look at google specifically: > Unions could negotiate for better parental leave They get 14 weeks parental leave + some amount for medical leave for people who give birth [0]. > Unions could empower tech workers to actually push back on unethical policies and projects Googlers pushed back on Dragonfly[1] and got it canceled. And they pushed back on Maven[2] and…

The ability to maintain that negotiation power and pressure on a reliable basis, as opposed to ad-hoc and reactively as problems arise. One could also ask why people form companies to solve problems when they can just work as individual contractors and arrive at the same conclusion.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#547

Post by austincheney » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 2:24 AM UTC

dvtrn wrote: post #519

austincheney wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is dumb enough to install employer spyware on their phone? If the company mandates such insanity then simply don’t bring your phone to work. The only way this could make any sense is if they provide you the phone AND pay for the service plan.

People who aren’t starting and ending their days reading HN, probably.

The down votes beg to differ.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#548

Post by tylerhou » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 2:27 AM UTC

munk-a wrote: post #291

qmarchi wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, as a Google employee, they do. If you don't want to run corp software, you can easily just request a corporate phone and that's that.

It is unfortunate (and a reflection of the power imbalance in US employment) that Google doesn't simply offer a corporate phone as a matter of practice - it benefits both the employee and the employer in the long run (with dishonest actions put aside).

Google lets employees request a corporate phone if they want one. It just doesn’t provide one by default, because many employees do not want or need them.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#549

Post by avianlyric » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 2:28 AM UTC

oh_sigh wrote: post #535

brundolf wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of whether or not IT professionals should be worried about their salaries, labor power isn't just about compensation. Unions could negotiate for better parental leave (which is still atrocious throughout the US, even in relatively cushy jobs). Unions could empower tech workers to actually push back on unethical policies and projects, as opposed to right now where they get to make a statement and then nothi…

Since this article is about a union for Googlers, let's look at google specifically: > Unions could negotiate for better parental leave They get 14 weeks parental leave + some amount for medical leave for people who give birth [0]. > Unions could empower tech workers to actually push back on unethical policies and projects Googlers pushed back on Dragonfly[1] and got it canceled. And they pushed back on Maven[2] and…

They could do all that again in the future without having to walk out and risk their jobs.

You shouldn’t need to put your job on line just to make your employer act ethically.

With a union maybe Google wouldn’t have thought paying the aggressor of sexual assault $90mil was a good idea. God knows why anyone thinks paying someone $90mil is good way to punish sexual assault.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#550

Post by austhrow743 » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 2:29 AM UTC

munk-a wrote: post #502

cortesoft wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people don't like carrying two phones.

Those people aren't barred from suffering from invasions of privacy and rootkits for the sake of a minor convenience. Most places outside of tech folks with tolls need to carry company tools where they go - doctors carrying hospital beepers was essentially a meme in the 90's.

Are you saying they should be barred?