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Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

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Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#511

Post by dvtrn »

youeseh wrote: post #253
willcipriano wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea how those contracts are enforceable. Quit your job, move across the country and then on your first day here are nine contracts to sign, no you can't take them home we need them now. If you don't sign you are unemployed and we want that relocation money back. I used to ask potential employers when I got deep into interviews with them. "Is there any way I can see all the contracts I would need to sign on…

I'm guessing that you've only worked at / interviewed at large firms. They're large and your prospective role there wasn't senior enough for them to afford you special treatment.

Why is it “special treatment” to want to read what you’re about to sign when it directly involves ones means of living?

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#512

Post by caconym_ »

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #491
madeofpalk wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The majority of these companies have spreadsheets where people share their salaries You mean a group of employees collectively organized?

If you call that “collectively organizing”, I guess that proves we don’t need unions. The labor law was all that we needed and it worked as expected. Problem solved!

It's possible I don't understand your point, but it seems fairly obvious to me that doing a little bit of a thing doesn't mean you can't benefit immensely from doing more of it.

Hungry? Eat a cracker and you may be less so—and it may even make a material difference to your survival in an extreme situation—but it won't replace a full meal.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#513

Post by fogetti »

realityking wrote: post #235
willcipriano wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea how those contracts are enforceable. Quit your job, move across the country and then on your first day here are nine contracts to sign, no you can't take them home we need them now. If you don't sign you are unemployed and we want that relocation money back. I used to ask potential employers when I got deep into interviews with them. "Is there any way I can see all the contracts I would need to sign on…

I was un are of this system until I hired in the US. It blows my mind. Here (Germany) offer letters are used to outline the general terms of an offer however the next step will then be that you’re sent a contract (some of mine have been > 10 pages) outlining a lot of relevant things such: - role (ideally even with a job description but that is rare) - place of employment (city/country) - IP assignment - length of pro…

If you want to know, the same system happens in Japan too.

When you get the offer letter it's an outline only. Then you either accept the offer letter as it is, or walk away. Asking for the detailed contract (called 就業規則 in Japanese) will always end up losing your job offer, because you have no legal right to see the contract before you join the company.

Some companies are so hostile (and this is the norm in my experience), that even very valid questions along the line of "Do I get severance pay if I am forced to retire?" or "How do stock options work?" will end your job application process right there because you will get labeled as overzealous.

Also, Japanese law doesn't require to state in the contract the exact position that you are hired into. So you will often get hired with the job description: "engineering team member". Of course HR will tell you mealy-mouthed or mellifluously that you are a senior/principal engineer and/or a manager, but none of that will hold any legal water in a lawsuit since your contract doesn't say so.

If you ask me, Japan and the US, some of the largest economies of the world are constant labor right abusers and the UN and other nations simply turn their head when this ever gets brought up.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#514

Post by Rebelgecko »

613style wrote: post #16
vorpalhex wrote: post #2

That headline does not match the article contents. That is definitely the headline from the article, but it simply repeats the claim and doesn't even link to the complaint or provide ANY details. > Spiers was fired after she created a pop-up for Google employees visiting the IRI Consultants website. Didn't she inject code into an unrelated internal extension? That sounds like a legit security issue no matter how just…

"Injecting code," is not the way I'd describe making changes to a product that it's your job to maintain.

(am Googler but obviously not speaking in an official capacity)

My understanding from articles I've read is that it wasn't her job to maintain the product. It was her first time interacting with that code base, and she intentionally altered the defaults of the code review tool so that the team responsible for the extension wouldn't be informed of her changes.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#515

Post by Ericson2314 »

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #486
black_puppydog wrote: post #262

The whole thread here seems to revolve around whether or not Spiers should have been fired for what she did. And while I have a clear opinion on that and had fun sparring with y'all here about it, can we also talk about how unionization is actually something that we need to think about as a profession / group of professions? The days where "being in IT" made you a rockstar that could command a premium in individual n…

As a former union employee, the idea of tech unionizing is completely unnecessary and unthinkably dumb in my opinion. I suspect advocates of this idea have very little real world experience with unions.

An American tech union, full of Americans who have never been in a union, would probably not be like other American unions for just that reason!

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#516

Post by ahelwer »

colinmhayes wrote: post #447
ahelwer wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a refutation: Microsoft spends $250k/employee/year on stock dividends and buybacks. That's quite a large slice of the pie the union could negotiate for.

That's not how salaries work. Microsoft would just say no. Are microsoft employees really willing to strike? Seems unimaginable to me at their salaries.

There are a lot of tools in a union's negotiation toolkit. A full-union work stoppage is the most extreme, rarely deployed. Other measures include rolling work stoppages, delaying response to manager emails, not attending meetings with management, not answering non-customer-impacting on-call pages during certain hours (I'm sure support would be widespread for this one in particular lol) - you can come up with more ideas on your own. My brother, an EMT, is part of a union that does "plainclothes" strikes where they just wear street clothes instead of their uniform, for a softer example from another field.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#517

Post by acituan »

scarmig wrote: post #118
acituan wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the stated reason but we all know that is not the real reason. If they added an ascii art of a dinosaur or a message on another topic to that internal security tool, they wouldn't have been fired, probably not even a slap on the wrist, at most an annoyed "take that off" request.

> we all know that is not the real reason No, that is not true. Some of us take security seriously.

Can you contextualize who you are, so that I can better understand “us”? You mention seriousness as an absolute virtue, but if it fires people for a harmless, easily correctable mistake in an internal tool, it is just misguided and an excuse especially if it “happens” to serve some ulterior motive.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#518

Post by sneak »

black_puppydog wrote: post #397
wwtrv wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This just reiterates what the parent comment said. In this case up to 49% of all workers who did not want to use tabs will be forced to.

That's not gonna be a very successful union then. The unions I know that actually work are near-universal, but you're never technically required to join. However, at certain levels of unionization, peer pressure kicks in because the "freeriders" effectively get protection from the union without pulling their weight.

> peer pressure kicks in because the "freeriders" effectively get protection from the union without pulling their weight.

I would much rather the peer pressure be applied to those writing the checks, by their competition.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#519

Post by dvtrn »

austincheney wrote: post #348
ditonal wrote: post #40

One thing that happens in SV is: * Employer says "hey, we have all these convenient corporate app, wouldn't it be nice to be able to check work messages and work docs on your mobile? Just install our app to "corp-ify" your phone" * Employer now views your mobile device as containing sensitive company IP and therefore they have the right to snoop on anything on your phone. If you install corp on your phone, Google vie…

Who is dumb enough to install employer spyware on their phone? If the company mandates such insanity then simply don’t bring your phone to work. The only way this could make any sense is if they provide you the phone AND pay for the service plan.

People who aren’t starting and ending their days reading HN, probably.
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