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Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

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Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#481

Post by throwaway667555 »

free2OSS wrote: post #338
throwaway667555 wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some details of an offer & acceptance of employment are trivial and not worth spoiling good will. Me: "Hey manager, can I make an expense report for this work phone?" No matter the response, I'm ok with it, because I make Google money, and that's policy. I should work towards becoming management if I want that to change. But I probably have better things to do than such a trivial disagreement. I wish corporations wer…

I'm not a privacy nut, but I am concerned about a company owning my ideas when I'm working on personal projects. I'm careful about that. Would that be a deal breaker even at a dream job, yes.

I admire that and wish more employees looked after their interests, too, so that the commons weren't so poisoned with corporation-morality rather than humanity-morality.

Practically speaking, I think giving The Guardian or some pro-union think tank/lobbyist a copy of internal corporate policies would move the needle a lot more than a personal stand, but the personal stand is admirable nonetheless. Currently my financial freedom supersedes that level of moral freedom and agency.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#482

Post by lokar »

munk-a wrote: post #291
qmarchi wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, as a Google employee, they do. If you don't want to run corp software, you can easily just request a corporate phone and that's that.

It is unfortunate (and a reflection of the power imbalance in US employment) that Google doesn't simply offer a corporate phone as a matter of practice - it benefits both the employee and the employer in the long run (with dishonest actions put aside).

It does (as do other companies). It's part of the onboarding, along with what kind of desktop, laptop, etc. You can decline the phone and use your own (with the software installed). Many people choose to do this out of convenience.

I expect the employers would actually prefer to just give everyone a phone the companies owns. They are doing the work profile on a personal device because many workers strongly prefer that.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#483

Post by postingpals »

renewiltord wrote: post #466
black_puppydog wrote: post #262

The whole thread here seems to revolve around whether or not Spiers should have been fired for what she did. And while I have a clear opinion on that and had fun sparring with y'all here about it, can we also talk about how unionization is actually something that we need to think about as a profession / group of professions? The days where "being in IT" made you a rockstar that could command a premium in individual n…

People should be allowed to unionize but I'll oppose it at every front. Because mass power means mass power that can be turned against me. 2016 taught me something. There are a large contingent of anti-immigrants out there. Should you allow the creation of a mob, a day will come when the populists will take control of it. In moments, the mob can break generations of integration. The best defence against it is prevent…

I was planning to argue with this, but I only feel sorry that you see something as historically useful as unionising in such a light.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#484

Post by ummonk »

janesvilleseo wrote: post #46
ditonal wrote: post #40

One thing that happens in SV is: * Employer says "hey, we have all these convenient corporate app, wouldn't it be nice to be able to check work messages and work docs on your mobile? Just install our app to "corp-ify" your phone" * Employer now views your mobile device as containing sensitive company IP and therefore they have the right to snoop on anything on your phone. If you install corp on your phone, Google vie…

100% agree. People laugh at me why I carry two phones but this is the main reason. If my employer needs me to have a mobile phone they are paying for separate device and plan. It’s a little silly I need to carry 2 phones around but it makes my life so much more convenient. Unknown call on my work phone guess I’ll answer. If it’s on my personal then it’s spam. Leave company, no need to update or port my number. Want t…

I also don’t take my work phone with me outside of work hours unless I’m oncall.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#485

Post by lokar »

shemnon42 wrote: post #217
an_opabinia wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is utterly insane to me how confused people are in the rest of this thread. There are people getting paid like $200,000 a year, and they can't be bothered to pay a lawyer $3,000 to read their employment contract once and explain any of this to them?

What's the point of a $3000 contract review if the employer's response will be "Not changing it, sign or walk."

What we know is one person said that's what happened.

I certainly know of people who have suggested and gotten changes to agreements like this. But you need to be professional about it.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#486

Post by lawnchair_larry »

black_puppydog wrote: post #262

The whole thread here seems to revolve around whether or not Spiers should have been fired for what she did. And while I have a clear opinion on that and had fun sparring with y'all here about it, can we also talk about how unionization is actually something that we need to think about as a profession / group of professions? The days where "being in IT" made you a rockstar that could command a premium in individual n…

As a former union employee, the idea of tech unionizing is completely unnecessary and unthinkably dumb in my opinion. I suspect advocates of this idea have very little real world experience with unions.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#487

Post by dylan604 »

joshuamorton wrote: post #239
dylan604 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because some lawyer convinced a judge that there may be pertinent information on it. If there's any suspicion that you may have used your personal device to communicate with co-workers, then they'll want to see it. You can't prove you didn't without turning it over. If they find you didn't use it, then thanks. If they find you did, game over. That's the point of the discovery process. They don't know what information…

> If there's any suspicion that you may have used your personal device to communicate with co-workers, then they'll want to see it. No, they'll want to see the communication. Which the company will be compelled to provide. The device isn't relevant. (In my, admittedly limited, experience, this is how these processes actually work)

The original discovery request may be something along the lines of "please submit all communications that occurred in an electronic format via printed copies, blah blah leaglese". You then wait until the last day allowed in the discovery request, and then send over what ever print outs you have decided to release. If opposing counsel feels you've left something out (intentionally or otherwise), they can/will go to a judge to get a warrant. That warrant will not state "collect print outs of communications from personal devices". It will state "collect any personal electronic devices".

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#488

Post by kls »

giantg2 wrote: post #137
kls wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I gave up a phone, 4 years ago due to the fact that I am involved in anti-child trafficking and while it is not a grave risk, the reality is there are bad people that traffic in children and the less trackable I am, the more that risk profile goes down. Anyways, that is just backstory to say, getting rid of my phone was the best thing I ever did, I have a burner with a few hundred minutes on it, in my truck for emerg…

I'd probably be fired if I didn't have a cell.

Fortunately in my line of work it's not that uncommon to have anything other than a burner phone and even then a lot of people don't even have that. I went completely without one for about 2 years and then decided to get a burner when I had to walk back to my house to get some tools to fix an issue with my truck. Figured I at least needed one for those kind of situations.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#489

Post by jldugger »

squarefoot wrote: post #207
janesvilleseo wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% agree. People laugh at me why I carry two phones but this is the main reason. If my employer needs me to have a mobile phone they are paying for separate device and plan. It’s a little silly I need to carry 2 phones around but it makes my life so much more convenient. Unknown call on my work phone guess I’ll answer. If it’s on my personal then it’s spam. Leave company, no need to update or port my number. Want t…

This. And not just two phones but two laptops as well, unless the employer forbids bringing a personal one at work (which would be a reason to dump them in my case). Leave work stuff to work hardware and never ever use company assets for anything personal. A friend of mine who works for a big multinational telco (unrelated to Google) installed an open source tool on his company laptop; when he connected back on the c…

Why would you bring a personal laptop to work?

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#490

Post by jmgao »

vlovich123 wrote: post #429
ahelwer wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an employee I might have $100k in MSFT stock after five years. Those buybacks gave me what, a few hundred/thousand bucks at most? Come on. For such a supposed math-literate profession this objection is weirdly common. If you get cash you can turn around and buy company stock. Nobody is stopping you. Unions would also certainly see the value in employee ownership of stock, which broadly aligns with ideas of workers…

People also seem to think that RSU grants somehow appreciate in value before they vest. They do not. If you sign for 400k of RSUs over 4 years with a 1 year cliff and the stock rockets up 2x just before your first vest and then plateaus, you’re still getting only 400k. There’s literally no difference to a regular salary except you get paid out twice and it makes taxes more annoying because you have to pay estimated t…

That's entirely dependent on the company. Google grants RSUs based on a dollar value when the grant is approved.
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