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Pfizer Covid vaccine approved for use next week in UK

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Re: Pfizer Covid vaccine approved for use next week in UK

#481
post #71

Out of curiosity, how do people on HN rate the risk of long term side-effects?

I am personally quite terrified of the possible unknown long term side effects of COVID-19 and largely confident that the vaccines are going to be safe.

If you offered me a vaccine tomorrow vs a 100% certain mild case of COVID-19 that would guarantee me immunity for a year so I could get the vaccine in 12 months when there was /even more/ confidence about the safety of the vaccine I would take the vaccine.

Re: Pfizer Covid vaccine approved for use next week in UK

#482
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heard it was something like this: 1. Long-term care residents/staff 2. Hospital workers 3. Anyone 85+ years old.

UK Gov originally published this as the priority interim list [1] - * older adults’ resident in a care home and care home workers * all those 80 years of age and over and health and social care workers * all those 75 years of age and over * all those 70 years of age and over * all those 65 years of age and over * high-risk adults under 65 years of age * moderate-risk adults under 65 years of age * all those 60 years…

Looks like it was already withdrawn and superseded by this: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

Re: Pfizer Covid vaccine approved for use next week in UK

#483
post #290
post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even when people in the UK should be celebrating, as literally the first country in the world to develop an approved C19 vaccine in record breaking time The UK has one of the first (Oxford/AstraZenica), but this news about the first approved is not a vaccine developed in the UK. But I'm still happy to celebrate the Turkish couple's German company that's owned by Pfizer, as I will be when Oxford hopefully release mo…

It's strange how we immediately take pride in stuff we had nothing to do with just because we identify in some way with the developers/creators.

Well, a country is a shared endeavour isn't it? We collaborate together by following our national laws, paying our taxes, follow our customs and traditions and engage in cultural renewal and repair when required. In this way, everyone in the country is responsible for fostering a peaceful and prosperous environment that can prove to be fertile infrastructure for advancements and breakthroughs. Why not take some small measure of pride in this? It's a generational effort.

Re: Pfizer Covid vaccine approved for use next week in UK

#484
post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a sheer infection control standpoint it makes a sense to vaccinate hypermobile social superspreader nodes first. Anyone who comes into contact with lots of people is going to be responsible for more onward infection chains than a reclusive grandma. The butterflies among the young are probably key drivers of spread. Take them out of the susceptibility picture and everyone benefits.

You just have to identify them. I also wonder if a social butterfly has a bigger contact network than the average church goer or retail employee.

Smartphone mobility and social graph data that’s already being collected and analyzed. Rather than just using existing tech to target ads and build surveillance capitalism profiles, it could be used in the public interest. On an opt in basis naturally; but as frictionlessly as possible via cookie tracker popups and updates to FAANG terms of service perhaps.

Re: Pfizer Covid vaccine approved for use next week in UK

#485
post #395
post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, from a strictly individual perspective, the health risks from a vaccine is almost certainly less than the long term (and short term) risks of COVID-19 infection.

Is the long covid phenomenon any more pronounced with this virus than any other coronavirus (last I read[0], the answer seems to be 'no')? Since there are four others circulating, will this vaccine even have a significant effect on these post-viral symptoms? 0: https://sebastianrushworth.com/2020/11/17/what-is-long-covid...

Or is it even real or nocebo/anxiety from constant fearmongering and propaganda? Why are most long Covid sufferers young, female, white and on Twitter?

Re: Pfizer Covid vaccine approved for use next week in UK

#486

I had COVID-19 early in the year, and so did my Wife (not sure about my Daughter, harder to tell with kids). I would really like to know whether I should get the vaccine or not? All the info that's out there says that immunity to C19 is temporary, so a vaccine after having gone through it doesn't seem redundant. Does anyone know if there's been any research on effects of the vaccine on the people who got C19 and reco…

I suggest you donate blood via the Red Cross [1] and get a free Covid antibody test. The presence of those antibodies should be a good indicator of whether you are still immune and that will help you decide whether or not you need the vaccine. You can do this every month or two and run your own experiment to determine the length of post-infection immunity. [1] https://www.redcrossblood.org/donate-blood/dlp/covid-19-a…

Thanks for the tip! I'm in the UK though, so American Red Cross doesn't help me much, and it doesn't seem like NHS does similar testing according to https://www.blood.co.uk/news-and-campaigns/news-and-statemen...

Re: Pfizer Covid vaccine approved for use next week in UK

#487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure logistics will be sold to a friend of the tories whose company assets consist of a single computer

See my previous comment about this [1] If the private company does a good job does it matter that they are mates with a tory? Seems little short-sighted of you if I must say. [1] https://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/britains-innovati...

The issue is not that things are being given to private companies that are mates with a Tory. The issue is that too many of these things are turning out to be given to private companies that are mates with a Tory where no basis exists for believing they can deliver, when other, qualified companies exist. Or, as in Serco's case, with no penalty clauses in place if they don't.

Again, for clarity: using the private sector isn't a problem. Corruption is. Failing to get results is.

I'm all up for chucking money at a big problem and sorting out the mess later, but this is a depressingly predictable mess, and chucking money at the problem bought us a demonstrably worse outcome than we should have had.

Re: Pfizer Covid vaccine approved for use next week in UK

#488
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a strange apostrophe (it's in the official list). Or am I misreading it?

Older Adults' is a shortened term for certain divisions e.g. Older Adults' Mental Health in UK medical circles. it's a bit of a catapostrophe, but I suspect it was copied, pasted, then added to without due attention

That apostrophe is bad for my mental health

Re: Pfizer Covid vaccine approved for use next week in UK

#489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it is fear mongering. While the health institutes have access to the data, I don't. I don't think anyone on hacker news can make many intelligent statements about side effects, yet, though the press releases claim that they are similar to what is typical of other vaccines.

Why would you personally need access to the data unless you actually think the government would allow people to take a dangerous vaccine.

I don't actually want the raw data as I am not an epidemiologist, but I do want to see peer-reviewed papers as the grandparent to my original comment was waiting for before making a judgment. The point is that there are very few people in the world who can currently say anything intelligent about the subject of side effects in this vaccine. From my basic knowledge of vaccines and the approval process, I suspect any side effects will be heavily out-weighed by the benefits, but right now, I have no way of making an educated assessment. To be clear, I'm not really worried about it. My point was simply that I saw only intellectual curiosity in the grandparent to my original comment where the parent saw fear mongering.

Re: Pfizer Covid vaccine approved for use next week in UK

#490
post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That story can easily be told in reverse. NHS Logistics didn't run well. As is consistently true of government run organisations it was run so badly that most of the NHS didn't even try to use its services. At the time of the privatisation the NHS sourced around half a million products but only acquired 50,000 of them via NHS Logistics. The entire purpose of privatising it was to try and make it work better and thus…

Your last paragraph caught my interest. Can you point me at countries that are widely accepted to have done a better job? My own experience of the NHS (as a non-Brit who lived in the UK for more than a decade) is that it is inefficient at the small things (sitting in a waiting room for an hour - but being shamed if I show up 10 minutes late for my appointment) but brutally effective at big important things (treatment…

The problem with British people's opinions of the NHS is that they routinely conflate the NHS with healthcare. (BTW, I am British myself). You're doing the same thing here.

The NHS is not healthcare. The NHS is not doctors or nurses or life saving operations. The NHS is not hospitals. All first world countries have these things, but none have an NHS except Britain.

The NHS is a bureaucracy that manages resource allocation. That's it. That's all it boils down to.

When you saw life saving operations working as hoped, that isn't happening because of the NHS. You'd see the same in France, Germany, Sweden, the USA, Japan or many other places. We don't judge the skill of a bureaucracy or institution based on the skill of individual employees, we judge it based on factors like:

1. How much overhead does it impose?

2. How competent is it at organising its operations?

3. How agile is it, how able is it to react to new circumstances and continually improve itself?

4. How many people can access its services, who might want to use them?

5. If it fails at any of those criteria, how easy is it to switch to a competitor?

The NHS varies from average to poor when evaluated by these criteria, with the exception of (4) where it gets the best possible score because it even happily treats people who flew in to the UK specifically for free treatment! But if we exclude that edge case then it becomes pretty average again, because universal access is solved in other societies using insurance schemes of various kinds (sometimes mandatory and subsidised). The exception is the USA where for cultural reasons a lot of people don't like being forced to buy health insurance.

Although its overhead is reasonable when evaluated in pure GDP terms, this is achieved partly through building up large maintenance backlogs which is hardly sustainable: true cost of the NHS to the UK should probably be higher than is actually reported. The government has tried several times to force the NHS to spend money on maintenance and upgrades but usually fails: the NHS takes whatever money was granted to it for this purpose and immediately spends it on daily operations in violation of their agreements. Nothing happens because to Brits the NHS is a holy religion, so NHS management don't really feel accountable.

The biggest problem with government run industries is not that they can't carry out their mission at all. Soviet factories successfully made steel and rockets, after all. Their problem is lack of agility and lack of quality. Agility: see the NHS testing ramp-up problems discussed in sibling threads. Quality: see how slowly the NHS ramped treatment back up after the April shutdown. Other countries did much better in that regard, because private hospitals desperately want to treat people in ways that the NHS just doesn't. How could it be otherwise: if private hospitals don't treat people then they run out of money and go bust, like any other business. If the NHS doesn't treat people, its staff basically get a paid holiday with no negative consequences. Of course that affects people's behaviour.

I said average to poor, that's true except for (5) where the impact is catastrophic. Its tax funded status means the private health sector is seriously throttled in the UK. So only the rich can work around NHS failures, and even then not always (private hospitals don't do the full range of treatments in the UK).

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