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The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

bbc.com

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Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#241

Post by InitialLastName »

toxik wrote: post #216
InitialLastName wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclaimer: I don't have kids, but I have done my share of childcare I suspect that this is one of the places we've lost out by splitting off to nuclear families with a small number of closely spaced children. Childcare is a job that, while difficult and stressful at times, is not particularly intellectually challenging, nor does it require very much expertise or physical strength. It's also relatively parallelizeabl…

While this sounds nice and good, the removal of generational living was completely intentional. Why? Because of the one thing you left out: it is the women who disproportionately end up taking care of the home and the children. There is no real feminism with this traditional system in place. Even with the modern setup, women take care of children more _even if they don't want to_, simply because nursing takes a lot o…

I don't think multi-generational households necessarily need to put a heavier burden on women. In fact, my argument is exactly that households like that do a better job of allocating labor to those who are less able to earn.

I don't think there's a real argument to be made that the nuclear household developed because of feminism. The New Deal and post-WWII policies that gave returning vets and their families cheap mortgages in sprawly suburbs appears to have had more to do with it (an era that was notably accompanied by an expansion of household technologies whose goals were to enable a single person to care for an entire household).

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#242

Post by fogetti »

> But she does advise employees to talk to their colleagues and collectively approach their boss, with evidence, if they want to ask for change.

Yeah, because that isn't what the labor unions are for, am I right?

I guess people enjoy living in today's neloiberal utopian nightmare rather than supporting labor rights and labor unions.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#243

Post by throwaway201103 »

kerblang wrote: post #99
underseacables wrote: post #9

It’s interesting the use of the aggressive language “revenge“ And “retaliatory” which seems to have a negative charge. I wonder if it is due to the culture of China, its communist leaning, or something deeper that looks at personal leisure time as a bad thing.

Interesting that the most downvoted comment is the only one concerned with China instead of "Yeah but let's talk about me!"... China has a culture of "labor" as the symbol of one's personal worth, and this ties into the Maoist/Communist ideal of empowering _labor_. In America, "idleness" might be the _reward_ of labor, or even a _kind_ of labor: thinking, imagining, talking, creating ideas themselves: "idle" labor. I…

My view of the American perspective is "be as idle as you please, but don't ask me to pay for it."

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#244

Post by fogetti »

otikik wrote: post #5

No mention of how to get out of this unhealthy habit. I'm struggling with this myself. Some of my conclusions so far: * When I am sleep-deprived I am less productive. So I spend more time doing "work". Then I have less time for everything else I want to do (family, cooking, sport). So I take more time away from sleep. And the cycle repeats. Sleep deprivation is self-perpetuating. * What I do at night, when I am exhau…

Stop blaming yourself. Even the article mentions that it is the employer to blame. It even suggests that the solution is to show solidarity and put pressure on your employer by talking to him as a group. Otherwise I don't think there is anything you can do.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#245

Post by toxik »

InitialLastName wrote: post #241
toxik wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While this sounds nice and good, the removal of generational living was completely intentional. Why? Because of the one thing you left out: it is the women who disproportionately end up taking care of the home and the children. There is no real feminism with this traditional system in place. Even with the modern setup, women take care of children more _even if they don't want to_, simply because nursing takes a lot o…

I don't think multi-generational households necessarily need to put a heavier burden on women. In fact, my argument is exactly that households like that do a better job of allocating labor to those who are less able to earn. I don't think there's a real argument to be made that the nuclear household developed because of feminism. The New Deal and post-WWII policies that gave returning vets and their families cheap mo…

That may be so for the US, but I’m not American nor is America the only country with nuclear family ideals.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#246

Post by InitialLastName »

toxik wrote: post #245
InitialLastName wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think multi-generational households necessarily need to put a heavier burden on women. In fact, my argument is exactly that households like that do a better job of allocating labor to those who are less able to earn. I don't think there's a real argument to be made that the nuclear household developed because of feminism. The New Deal and post-WWII policies that gave returning vets and their families cheap mo…

That may be so for the US, but I’m not American nor is America the only country with nuclear family ideals.

Yes, my perspective was perhaps US-centric, but so is my experience of social history. My understanding was that much of the European and Japanese post-war reconstruction operated on a similar (if less supercharged) model, but I'm hazier on the Eastern Bloc. I'd be very interested in alternative processes, if you can suggest them.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#247

Post by bradlys »

criddell wrote: post #237
bradlys wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think it is difficult to find a new job once you are established as a reasonably competent engineer. It's gotten harder every year I've been in the industry. I have a limited set of experience since I've only worked since 2013. But, I've interviewed every single year for the last 7 years and the interviews keep getting tougher. Every time I decide to venture out - I have to prep more than I did the previous…

You've been working for 7 years. Has your professional network started to bear any fruit?

Not one fucking bit. I start from ground zero every time. Doesn't matter, really. The companies I want to work at - referrals don't really get you that far unless you know a very particular person.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#248

Post by mlyle »

throwaway201103 wrote: post #238
mlyle wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first couple years of a kid's life often really, really sucks for the parents. If you don't just intrinsically adore babies, you've just got a whole lot of work with no immediate payoff. Sleep deprivation has a way of making everything worse, too. There are fun bits later, and some people will insist childrearing is 'fun', but I don't think so. It's loads of work, but fulfilling, interesting work, getting to know…

I mean, there are summer camps for kids who are old enough, grandparents if you have them and they are willing to take the kids for a week or two, but the thing is even the "vacation" is not the same as your life before kids. You're always still thinking about them, always ultimately responsible for them. Having kids is a fork in the road. There is no going back to the old path, even temporarily. The closest you will…

Yah, I'm nowhere near even those levels of taking a break, though. Only one grandparent left and he's not up to take 3 rambunctious boys at once, and the youngest is 6 so there's not great stay-away camp opportunities.

We were going to have two of them go away to Johns Hopkins-CTY this summer, but it didn't happen (for obvious reasons).

Maybe summer 2021 I'll get a week or two partially off :D

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#249

Post by eru »

monkeynotes wrote: post #56
eru wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tried stimulants?

Stimulants to work around depression seems like a recipe for more depression. A high is usually followed by a low, not to mention fucking up your brain long-term. I would suggest seeking professional mental health help. I'd also suggest meditation and a bit of self discovery. If it wasn't 2020 I'd also suggest travelling, break the pattern find some perspective. Life is too short, find some help, get to the root of y…

Sorry for my flippant comment. I was actually more serious than I sounded like:

Underlying ADHD can sometimes cause depression and other weird comorbid things. If you treat the ADHD, the depression might get better. (I've seen it happen to friends.)

Yes, in the very short term, stimulants also make you happy directly. But that effect is fleeting and subject to building a very quick tolerance.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#250

Post by eru »

prionassembly wrote: post #132
monkeynotes wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stimulants to work around depression seems like a recipe for more depression. A high is usually followed by a low, not to mention fucking up your brain long-term. I would suggest seeking professional mental health help. I'd also suggest meditation and a bit of self discovery. If it wasn't 2020 I'd also suggest travelling, break the pattern find some perspective. Life is too short, find some help, get to the root of y…

> A high is usually followed by a low I've had both Ritalin and modafinil. They're different.

Yes.

They both don't have much of a low at low doses. And in any case, you wouldn't be getting a high from either any more after a few days of using them, tolerances to the high build very quickly.

My original comment was a bit flippant. I was obliquely hinting at perhaps treating an underlying ADHD, because that's sometimes cause for depression and something that's relatively easy to rule out (or treat) with eg some over-the-counter nicotine patches.

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