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College students are learning hard lessons about anti-cheating software

voiceofsandiego.org

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Re: College students are learning hard lessons about anti-cheating software

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One professor of mine let us bring books and notes into our written exams knowing that if you didn't actually do any of the readings or take any notes, those resources wouldn't really help you anyway. But if you had adequately prepared, the books and notes could really help you craft an excellent written response. In this scenario, it took the focus off memorizing things and instead focused on understanding the conte…

In my engineering education my favorite and most productive learning came from the professor who assigned graded homework and provided fully worked solutions to the given problems before when the problems were assigned. You had to do them, you were completely able to just copy the solution, and when you were working on something you got immediate feedback as to whether you were doing it well. If you wanted to learn y…

Through a number of classes I took online and in person with online homework, the immediate feedback was the one thing I really appreciated.

Statics is very much a class where the same basic concepts are applied tons of times in different ways, and you kind of need to see and do a lot of problems to get good. My professor had us do online homework with unlimited attempts, but we had to submit our hand written work as well. Even though that class was entirely online, I felt very confident applying what I learned on projects.

The immediate feedback was 10x better than having the week or two of lag, and 9x better than having the answer on the back of the book because I never ran out of problems to try.

Re: College students are learning hard lessons about anti-cheating software

#243
post #53

> At the self-described “heart” of the company’s monitoring software is Monitor AI, a “powerful artificial intelligence engine” that collects facial detection data [...] to identify “patterns and anomalies associated with cheating.” > "... people who have some sort of facial disfigurement have special challenges; they might get flagged because their face has an unexpected geometry.” So this company is extrapolating "…

It's clearly just looking for people looking at another computer or otherwise glancing elsewhere before entering answers. It's not phrenology. It may not be effective, either, and I don't want to be put in a position of defending this company. But it shouldn't be interpreted as they analyzing if someone looks like a cheater.

> It's clearly just looking for people looking at another computer or otherwise glancing elsewhere before entering answers

This assumes that the AI only picks up on patterns between eye movement and cheating, and not correlations between unrelated dimensions of data in the dataset that the model was trained on.

Famously, such correlations created AI systems that resulted in disparate impact on legally protected classes in the US.

Also, these systems are usually ill-equipped to handle anomalies in an accurate capacity.

Re: College students are learning hard lessons about anti-cheating software

#244
These 'anti-cheat' softwares don't actually prevent cheating. One of my teachers tried to use one called MyPerfectice (thankfully we persuaded her to switch). I think most of these are built without any understanding of the constraints set up by the browser. I don't know about the others but MyPerfectice gives you 4 or 5 window going out of focus events before making your attempt invalid. The funny thing is that they allow students to upload files from their system and allow focus to be lost during that. So if you click the upload button, it opens the OS file selection window and you are then free from all the checks they set up. Open a new window and cheat as much as you like.

I'm wondering if it's possible to just do a custom build of Firefox/Chrome that does not trigger these out of focus events.

Coming to the video streams, just record a 1-2 minute video of yourself staring into your screen from your webcam and loop it through OBS. No one will notice anything. For MyPerfectice, it is even easier, they have their camera controls exposed as unobfuscated global objects. So you can essentially do something like `camera.stop()` and the webcam light turns off.

Re: College students are learning hard lessons about anti-cheating software

#245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if you only have linux computers at home and can't run their spyware?

I've never dealt with this software but when I did my CS degree, several of the applications we worked with throughout the course were distributed as Windows binaries. If you'd ever done homework or study at all, you don't only have Linux.

> several of the applications we worked with throughout the course were distributed as Windows binaries

Because most linux users use their distribution's packages and it is normally easier than hunting for windows binaries.

Need an assembler? `sudo apt-get install nasm`, etc. I am a math/cs undergrad and have not used a windows machine in over 6 years. (In my case it would be editing either editing my home.nix or creating a shell.nix for a course rather than apt/dnf/etc)

Re: College students are learning hard lessons about anti-cheating software

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One professor of mine let us bring books and notes into our written exams knowing that if you didn't actually do any of the readings or take any notes, those resources wouldn't really help you anyway. But if you had adequately prepared, the books and notes could really help you craft an excellent written response. In this scenario, it took the focus off memorizing things and instead focused on understanding the conte…

In my engineering education my favorite and most productive learning came from the professor who assigned graded homework and provided fully worked solutions to the given problems before when the problems were assigned. You had to do them, you were completely able to just copy the solution, and when you were working on something you got immediate feedback as to whether you were doing it well. If you wanted to learn y…

I was a TA for the department head in CS, and he gave us free reign to handle grading and such however we felt was best. More important things to do, I guess :)

We had Homework, Quizzes, and Tests, 33.33 each. Homework was graded like you said. Quizzes and Tests were open notes but on a relatively tight timescale. If people missed a homework, they could turn it in late for some linearly scaled penalty. If they missed a quiz or test question, they could come in and demonstrate/defend a solution off the cuff during office hours for 70% credit or something similarly high.

Students loved it. They no longer had to stress about getting an A, and they could instead focus on understanding the material, since that was the easiest way to (eventually) get the points.

I will say, though, this strategy was very time consuming for a large class. It also requires the TAs to have mastery of the material, which (shocker) is unfortunately not all that common.

Re: College students are learning hard lessons about anti-cheating software

#247
post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was in college in 2005 I had classes that could be taken online. When tested we were given a deadline, usually 24 hours after the test had been handed out. We could start whenever we wanted, take breaks, work throughout the day, as long as we had it in before the deadline. It seemed to work fine.

It worked even finer for those who paid someone else to do the test for them.

How does one fib proficiency in a role as an individual contributor? I mean after school is through? I have been a software engineer for 14years. I am self taught with only a 2yr degree i completed my 4th year into this career. Can a line in resume(a degree mention) remedy a failed technical screening process?

Personal experience : I have declined several MD CS holders this year alone for positions because their demonstrated abilities were not up to par(and these were not particularly difficult questions).

Re: College students are learning hard lessons about anti-cheating software

#248

Fuck grades. They were already a problem in universities and this is their final and worst form. University systems have the major problem that a significant portion of students are only there for a degree, and their participation is playing the game in order to get that piece of paper, and the GPA number rating them. The core of this problem is the question “will this be on the exam?” Testing of course can be an imp…

Got a BS/MS in CompSci in my twenties when I was immature as a person, now doing online classes for a non-tech major. As an "adult student" the system seems 10x more broken than it was when I was a high school graduate. Being young and tuition-free it was easy to grind through the material just worrying about the next test in the next class. Now, here I am as a tricenarian trying to relax and understand hundreds of p…

> I got one teacher to chat off the record and he basically said to "get through it." What a disservice to students. Why are there still weeding-out classes? How many doctors, surgeons, programmers, engineers would there be in the world if it wasn't for these classes? The Montessori education system and the like seem so superior. College should be pass/fail.

Honestly, that's typical of most Biology lower division courses. The theory goes 'if you cannot pass this, you have no chance of the MCAT.' which may be true but some of us had no desire to be a physician. Someone replied to such an absurd structure explained to me that's 'how the system works.' Many of us that finally passed would not have anything directly to do with medicine and would AT BEST be considered ancillary service status to Medicine, and we were not amused. I personally will only take Industry-centric certifications, and I will never consider going back for anything degree related.

Google really is making the smartest move out of all the FAANG corps in that regard, by placing grater value on their own rather than degrees.

With that said, that's really what its there to do, isolate those who can commit to high loads of dated and rather antiqued (my near College credit HS Biology graded us on Kingdoms as Domains were already well established in the University lectures I attended) rote learning the best and 'thining the heard' for the upper-divisions which were super-capped when I was in University as all fields in Biology were impacted.

I at least thought now with Online learning being the default for so many it's sad to see the tech still hasn't solved this problem of mainly distribution/class seats.

I think it's one of the 2 elite schools in the UK (Cambridge or Oxford) that have an actual in-person skill assessment for your final rather than a test and most of your grade depends on that. My Inorganic Chemistry professor said his final exams were always the most preferable, albeit impractical, way to go about it. As a regular at his office hour lectures, I wish I had the pleasure of seeing what that may have been like.

> My SO once TA'd for a pre-med class. Holy hell, the students were something else as compared to other disciplines.

Been there, seen that as a Biology major just trying to get my foot in the door to get a graded paper during office hours. It's really sad now that I think about it as an adult that left the Industry long ago, you have no idea the weight on those kids shoulders to make it pass the openly touted 'filter' process, be it self-imposed or from their family. Its a sad reality how few end up using it all in these 2 horrible job markets for young inexperienced graduates.

My heart goes out to anyone who has to graduate in this Market, 2008 was bad but I think this may end up being worse as automation wasn't as big of threat as it was in 2008 as it is now in 2020 with COVID.

PS: Also, its well known amongst Biology majors that adderall abuse doesn't just start in Medschool, its a well established habit by undergrad possibly even the HS level for some.

Re: College students are learning hard lessons about anti-cheating software

#249

Fuck grades. They were already a problem in universities and this is their final and worst form. University systems have the major problem that a significant portion of students are only there for a degree, and their participation is playing the game in order to get that piece of paper, and the GPA number rating them. The core of this problem is the question “will this be on the exam?” Testing of course can be an imp…

> University systems have the major problem that a significant portion of students are only there for a degree, and their participation is playing the game in order to get that piece of paper, and the GPA number rating them. In defense of the students, they're just following the incentive gradient in front of them. For all the romantic notions about how college should be optimized for exploration and "real learning",…

Let’s not fail to mention the $100k elephant in the room :).

It’s very hard to focus on real learning when your financial freedom is at stake. People can not be faulted to feel that every minute spent studying the liberal arts curriculum is a minute that might be better invested in studying something that slays the elephant.

It’s a life or death feeling when the money involved is more than your parents have earned cumulatively.

Slaying the elephant becomes the end goal, everything else is secondary. A high GPA is a spear, and ethical integrity is a cheap way of obtaining it. This doesn’t explain why everyone cheats, but I think it attracts the otherwise “good” people, who are essential for normalizing the practice.

IMO, we need to do away with the elephant, and the rest will follow. Schools need not be so expensive. I hope some startup school will do the job. Otherwise, companies might be the first to do it.

It’s probably cheaper for Google to operate a University than it is to operate their recruiting pipeline :)

Re: College students are learning hard lessons about anti-cheating software

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> People that want to cheat or game the system will find ways, it isn't hard to do. As someone who taught a college, that's a flawed statement. Let me propose this to you. You teach Calculus 1000 and there is an end of term exam. Your normal end of term exam is one where everyone sits in the same room, proctors are looking for cheats, things checked, etc. Instead this year you tell your students that this year it wi…

The idea that an honor code is enough is belied by the fact that software like this catches cheaters, no? I mean, we're obviously upset about false positives, and we should be. But I'm presuming that some people are caught who were cheating, and without the software they would have cheated and not been caught. We can suggest that with an honor code in place, maybe some of those cheating students would have not cheate…

I have taught at multiple honor-code institutions (and still do). It does not prevent cheating. However, it shifts focus: I can go about my teaching life starting from an assumption that students are not cheaters—and I'm personally convinced that most aren't.

The flipside is that when you do catch a cheating case, you completely throw the book at them. It's legitimately easier to cheat under an honor system, if that's what you're wanting to do... so my assumption is that if we catch you at it, it's likely part of a pattern, and if we catch you multiple times the pattern is irreformable. It is not uncommon at honor-code institutions to expel students on the second offence (sometimes even on the first).

I do think that cheating is less prevalent at my institution (and my previous institution) than it is in the larger university population.

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