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College students are learning hard lessons about anti-cheating software

voiceofsandiego.org

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Re: College students are learning hard lessons about anti-cheating software

#111
So many privacy flags on this one, I'm shocked colleges are using this software.

Just a few highlights from the article that really stick out:

“You have to record your environment, you have to record the whole desk, under the desk, the whole room,” Molina recalled. “And you need to use a mirror to show that you don’t have anything on your keyboard.”

On top of that, if the wireless connection was disturbed during an exam, Molina said, students would receive an automatic zero — no excuses.

He said he didn’t realize he hadn’t sufficiently shown his notepaper to his webcam, or that his habit of talking through questions aloud would be considered suspicious.

“At the beginning of the exam, you leave the area for about one minute without explanation,” Merrill wrote in an email to Molina. She added that it looked like he was using his calculator for problems that did not require a calculation and that he solved certain problems too quickly. As a result, Molina was given an F in the course and his case was submitted to SDSU’s Center for Student Rights and Responsibilities, where he could appeal the decision.

Neekoly Solis, an SDSU junior and first-year transfer student, said each test-taker now has to verbally explain each of their calculations to their webcam every time they use their calculators during an exam.

Then, she had to show the camera her desk, and underneath her desk, with her bulky desktop computer. She realized she was in a pair of shorts, and her webcam was picking up — and recording — seconds of her bare legs that could be seen by her older male professor. She was creeped out.

“You have to do a crotch shot, basically,” said Jason Kelley, associate director of research at the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a digital privacy group based in San Francisco. He recalled watching a tutorial video from another proctoring system called HonorLock, horrified as he watched the video subject do a long pan of their body.

Some other unsettling parts about the data their collecting:

Respondus’s website states that the default data retention period for Respondus Monitor is five years, but the client can change that.

And worse yet, what about the appeal process? Not exactly in the students favor:

Molina appealed. But even well into the fall semester and over a month after the accusations were filed, the office had canceled his scheduled meetings twice due to coronavirus-related emergencies.

After the third rescheduling, Molina finally had the chance to explain himself. One week later, he received a letter of “no action,” meaning the university would not pursue disciplinary action against him. He forwarded the letter to his business administration professors and requested that he get the grade he deserved. He said he had already emailed the student ombudsman twice, and never received a reply. Merrill finally gave him his grade back, almost two months after he’d received an F in the class.

In conclusion, you have a dodgy software program, that's highly invasive to your privacy. It can take months to get your appeal figured out. In the meantime, you're left to twist in the wind. And worst of all, the company keeps your data for five years.

Re: College students are learning hard lessons about anti-cheating software

#112

A few points: Their "powerful AI engine" is almost certainly just humans. It might have a few off-the-shelf components like face detection but most of what they claim to do is just so easy to outsource that almost all companies do it. If there is any delay between the system observing a suspect behaviour and the student being told to correct it then they are definitely using humans. An institution using a service lik…

Or you could just set the speed limit appropriately, at a level that most drivers will naturally conform to. This optimizes for both expediency and safety, but, sadly, not for revenue, or for readily-available probable cause to pull over essentially anyone the police want to pull over.

> Or you could just set the speed limit appropriately, at a level that most drivers will naturally conform to.

The problem is that such a limit would not be a safe one, you would basically be replacing the limit with a sign that posts the rate that people like to drive at.

Re: College students are learning hard lessons about anti-cheating software

#113
post #67
post #53

> At the self-described “heart” of the company’s monitoring software is Monitor AI, a “powerful artificial intelligence engine” that collects facial detection data [...] to identify “patterns and anomalies associated with cheating.” > "... people who have some sort of facial disfigurement have special challenges; they might get flagged because their face has an unexpected geometry.” So this company is extrapolating "…

> This is just phrenology ... It's probably worse. I'd bet that in addition to humans with non-'normal' heads, it would also flag the blind, deaf, sufferers of Tourette syndrome, certain muslim women, bearded men, humans of african descent, humans of asian descent, etc. > even if the calipers[1] are replaced with a bunch of linear algebra. I love this line. If your head does not fit the space of eigen-heads, throw an…

And the non-neurotypical.

Re: College students are learning hard lessons about anti-cheating software

#114

The thing that has always frustrated me about anti-cheating/anti-plagiarism software is that it almost always only hurts people that did something by accident or unintentionally. When I took the one kubernetes certification exam as part of an old job, you used software like this and at one point I leaned too close to the screen and the proctor couldn't see my face and that got me flagged. People that want to cheat or…

My partner recently finished her PhD and has started working as a medical writer. During her academic career, it was beat into her head don’t plagiarize, everything must be yours . In her first review after a few weeks on the job, her manager says that she takes too long to do her work; they just need her to take what the client says verbatim, fact check it, and then slap it in a document. She was treating her work l…

> Academia is the worst job training program ever.

Pet peeve of mine. Academia is not a training program for jobs. The role of academia is not to produce business-perfect-candidates.

If business wants trained workers, they should train them. Cutting costs by not training them, then blaming universities for not producing trained workers is disingenuous at best.

Re: College students are learning hard lessons about anti-cheating software

#115
post #86

I found myself brewing with rage while reading this article. The approach of closely inspecting a student's words & physical actions while taking a test just feels...dated. Ancient. Anachronistic. Embarrassing. In the real world of 2020+, almost everyone has a portable Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy in their pocket. Let people use calculators. Heck, let people use Wikipedia! If they copy an incorrect fact from Wiki…

Folks are doing take-home exam wrong. Caltech had tremendous success with a culture of honesty and take-home exams.

Caltech is also smaller and extremely hard to get into, hardly representative of avg college student.

Re: College students are learning hard lessons about anti-cheating software

#116

At least the online class cheating increases fairness. Now you can cheat without having the money to purchase a bogus disability claim. For many years now, all the well-off schemers have been taking tests with twice as much time as normal. Nobody in academia dares to push back at this fraud, out of fear that they might be pilloried for failure to accommodate. Honest students usually aren't even aware of just how unfa…

I had a lot of mental health issues and I registered with my school's accessibility services. I was surprised I could get extra time on tests, extensions, etc. so easily. Unfortunately, none of those accommodations were even helpful for me. An extension would just make me fall further behind on other work, and I didn't have test anxiety or a disability which would prevent me from taking tests quickly (though I was offered this accommodation anyway).

The only accommodation that I took once or twice was having a teacher re-weight marks from a missed assignment to other assignments, which was only good for me if I was going to do well on those other assignments. I think for mental health, the most important things my school did for me weren't even accommodations. They were: letting me reattempt courses any number of times, letting me take a year off without even having to notify them, letting me take a reduced course load, and stuff like that. These things give no advantage to students who utilize them, but can make a world of a difference to students who need them. Without them I'd have failed my degree, but now I'm mentally healthy and I'm going to graduate soon.

Anyway, it's shitty that some people abuse accommodations, but most of them don't give them an advantage over other students, and some students do need them, so getting rid of them is not really a solution. The main one that would give an advantage is increased test time (the solution to which is to write exams where students already have plenty of time -- the majority of my profs already do this).

As for the whole system being put at risk, I think the whole system is going down the shitter anyway. Why do I need to pay thousands and thousands of dollars a year for an education which could easily be delivered for less than a tenth of that price? Prestige? I don't think universities will survive the modern Internet outside of programs which need hands-on lab experience.

Re: College students are learning hard lessons about anti-cheating software

#117

I see online synchronous 1-2 hour exams as a mistaken result of the "let's emulate in-person teaching in a remote setting" mindset. You don't succeed in remote teaching and learning by trying to make it as close as possible to the in-person setup. You have to treat it as an entirely different problem. Consider the synchronous exam. It is a perfect method of grading in-person. It is hard to cheat and all people take t…

> You don't succeed in remote teaching and learning by trying to make it as close as possible to the in-person setup. You have to treat it as an entirely different problem.

I agree at a high level, but practically speaking it's not realistic to expect colleges to completely reinvent their entire teaching systems for a temporary, 1-2 year remote learning period.

Now that we've been dealing with COVID for almost an entire year, it's easy to forget that at one point we thought this would all be over in a matter of weeks or months. The situation was also evolving in real time. Colleges were looking for the most efficient stop-gap solutions, not for ways to completely overhaul their learning experience.

> It is also practically impossible to prevent cheating.

It's a mistake to assume that because we can't eliminate all cheating, we shouldn't bother reducing any cheating.

The advantage of synchronous test taking is that everyone is exposed to the problem set at the same time. The obvious cheat with asynchronous test taking would be for one person to volunteer to take the test early and then send the questions to their peers, all of whom take the test at the last possible minute.

This happens whenever in-person classes offer two time slots for taking a test. The later time slot is always far more packed than the first and comes back with significantly higher scores. Adding the internet and screenshots/camera phones to the equation amplifies this because students can share the exact test, not just what they recall from memory.

> In an online setting however, people can face all sort of troubles in a few hour window in their home. Your internet might stop working, neighbor might be making too much noise etc.

Educators aren't oblivious to this fact. Working with students who have interruptions is just part of the job. Having someone lose internet isn't much different from having someone get a flat tire on the way to the test. It happens, we deal with it, and it's fine.

I also think you're not giving students enough credit. They're not dumb. If noise is a problem, they're going to use headphones. If internet is flakey, they're going to find a better location to take a test.

It's such a weird double standard to see HN champion work from home as unequivocally superior to working in an office, yet whenever the topic of learning from home comes up we get a laundry list of what-about possibilities that might make the experience worse.

Re: College students are learning hard lessons about anti-cheating software

#118
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately each faculty member produces about 30 PhD students in their career (one per year). The number of faculty positions has been close to flat since the 1970's. So one in 30 PhD's will get to be faculty member. She probably took the job because she wants/needs a job and the company likes to have the status of PhDs doing the work.

Sure, so what? Anyone smart and dedicated enough to complete a Phd is smart enough to realize this going in. Surely the vast majority of people getting Phds don't expect to ever become academics and have some other plan.

> Anyone smart and dedicated enough to complete a Phd is smart enough to realize this going in.

No, this isn't true at all. People don't complete PhD's because they looked at their options and thought that one was the best. They do it because other people told them they should, and they just never thought about it.

Re: College students are learning hard lessons about anti-cheating software

#119

I see online synchronous 1-2 hour exams as a mistaken result of the "let's emulate in-person teaching in a remote setting" mindset. You don't succeed in remote teaching and learning by trying to make it as close as possible to the in-person setup. You have to treat it as an entirely different problem. Consider the synchronous exam. It is a perfect method of grading in-person. It is hard to cheat and all people take t…

When I was in college in 2005 I had classes that could be taken online. When tested we were given a deadline, usually 24 hours after the test had been handed out. We could start whenever we wanted, take breaks, work throughout the day, as long as we had it in before the deadline. It seemed to work fine.

Re: College students are learning hard lessons about anti-cheating software

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My partner recently finished her PhD and has started working as a medical writer. During her academic career, it was beat into her head don’t plagiarize, everything must be yours . In her first review after a few weeks on the job, her manager says that she takes too long to do her work; they just need her to take what the client says verbatim, fact check it, and then slap it in a document. She was treating her work l…

> Academia is the worst job training program ever. Pet peeve of mine. Academia is not a training program for jobs. The role of academia is not to produce business-perfect-candidates. If business wants trained workers, they should train them. Cutting costs by not training them, then blaming universities for not producing trained workers is disingenuous at best.

Yes... and no. Yes, what you say is true - that isn't the point of an academic degree.

But no, because the way students (and parents) think about it is "go to college so you can get a good job". And many, many employers require a degree or they won't look at the candidate. In the real world, academia is functioning as a job training program.

Or at least as a gateway to the good jobs. But if it's going to be a gateway, but not do any training... that's pretty inefficient.

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