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No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

sciencemag.org

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Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#251

Post by merpnderp »

Antimateri4 wrote: post #6
inglor_cz wrote: post #2

RNA vaccines have a huge potential in treating cancer as well. Basically, you can whip up a personalized vaccine which wakes the immune system up to the fact that it has a growing tumor on its hands. So far, the success rate is very far from 100 per cent, but the therapy sometimes works even in patients with severe late stage metastatized cancer and, in all likelihood, we will learn how to use it better in coming yea…

Yes i read some interesting article aswell regarding mRNA vaccines, but from my understanting mRNA vaccine aren't yet tested in humans right? Only animals or am i mistaken? EDIT: what my question is: is there another mRNA type vaccine out there fully developed (i'm not suggesting that they are bad!)? EDIT2: Guys, i will never ask question again in here. Begin downvoted for a genuine question.

Don't sweat the haters, always feel free to ask legitimate questions. They're the ones who have to look in the mirror and see a person who tries to keep people from learning.

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#252

Post by sp332 »

maxerickson wrote: post #169
tpmx wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I forgot that part. That's the reason why also young healthy people need to take the vaccine in order to stop the spread. It's a solidarity gesture.

A vaccine is likely to be safer for low risk people than a course of infection, it's not just helping slow the spread.

I think tpmx's point is that the virus would also be less dangerous for them, so getting the vaccine has less chance of having a net benefit for the individual.

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#253

Post by kevincox »

It is presumably good that we will have a variety of vaccines. This way if one of them has unnoticed harmful long-term effects it will only affect a subset of the population.

Is there some sort of system like this for flu shots? Or are we injecting a large portion of the population with the exact same stuff?

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#254

Post by yibg »

sandworm101 wrote: post #136
mrjaeger wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can read all of them in their published protocol at https://www.modernatx.com/sites/default/files/mRNA-1273-P301... under section 5.2.

There is an additional question that opens the door to all sorts of hidden exclusions: Were study participants given medical advice prior to participation? If I ask my doctor whether it is a "good idea" for me to participate in an investigational study like this, there are all number of reasons he may advise against. Those reasons form a defacto hidden list of exclusions. Would a doctor advise a patient with diabetes…

Isn't this why the results are compared against the control group?

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#255

Post by JoshuaDavid »

delfinom wrote: post #24
inglor_cz wrote: post #2

RNA vaccines have a huge potential in treating cancer as well. Basically, you can whip up a personalized vaccine which wakes the immune system up to the fact that it has a growing tumor on its hands. So far, the success rate is very far from 100 per cent, but the therapy sometimes works even in patients with severe late stage metastatized cancer and, in all likelihood, we will learn how to use it better in coming yea…

Sadly from the manufacturing process description alone, we are going to be decades away from when it's actually ...not a few million dollars per individual to treat.

Lots of biotech-type things are rapidly getting cheaper. Most notably for this purpose, sequencing and DNA synthesis are both getting cheaper at an exponential rate (to the point that there's a term for it -- the Carlson curve -- similar to Moore's law for computing).

A treatment that costs a few million dollars now will cost a few thousand dollars in a decade or two, assuming all costs scale according to the Carlson curve. In practice, this is probably a bad assumption, if nothing else because a hospital bed alone costs a thousand dollars a night or more, but it does seem likely that mRNA-based treatments will become much cheaper to develop over time to the point where they will be cheap enough to be viable by the time they would actually finish passing through the regulatory hurdles.

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#256

Post by jjeaff »

JoshuaDavid wrote: post #255
delfinom wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly from the manufacturing process description alone, we are going to be decades away from when it's actually ...not a few million dollars per individual to treat.

Lots of biotech-type things are rapidly getting cheaper. Most notably for this purpose, sequencing and DNA synthesis are both getting cheaper at an exponential rate (to the point that there's a term for it -- the Carlson curve -- similar to Moore's law for computing). A treatment that costs a few million dollars now will cost a few thousand dollars in a decade or two, assuming all costs scale according to the Carlson…

Ya, I have heard virologists talking about how many can already do mrna work in their own lab. It's scaling it up that is the expensive part. But I suspect it will just be a matter of new machinery focused on individual production rather than bulk production.

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#257

Post by tim333 »

radiator wrote: post #151
sjs382 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they have no way of testing for side-effects that could occur 4 + years down the line. > “This is a unique situation where we as a company simply cannot take the risk if in ... four years the vaccine is showing side effects,”

You don't say? Then why are so many people here criticizing those who want to delay 4 years before testing this vaccine on themselves and on their family?

You've got to balance the risk from the vaccine against the risk from covid. The first is probably vastly less even if non zero.

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#258

Post by philsnow »

wxnx wrote: post #9
SomeoneFromCA wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not know if you aware or not, but there is a similar to mRNA vaccines, yet different (actually, almost mirror reflection of what mRNA vaccine is) invention called antisense drugs. Those are actually already used as antivirals.

Antisense drugs are the same biological material, but have a very different mechanism of effect. Specifically, mRNA vaccines require an immune response to be effective. The mRNA (vaccine) encodes a viral protein, and the host (human) immune system still has to learn to respond to that protein. Antisense drugs are much simpler, with no immune response required. The mRNA (the drug) itself simply binds to the target mRN…

> Antisense drugs are much simpler, with no immune response required. The mRNA (the drug) itself simply binds to the target mRNA.

Does that make them a class of "cures" rather than "immunizations"? If I get infected with the same thing a year later, will I need another dose of the antisense drug?

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#259

Post by iso1210 »

tsimionescu wrote: post #196
disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, agreed. My selfish concern is then whether or not the vaccine will work for them.

Unfortunately, vaccines can't really help immunocompromised people, as their immune system is simply unable to fight off any infection, regardless of whether it recognizes the infection or not (of course, this may be a matter of degrees). That is why, for example, people with advanced AIDS can die from essentially any pathogen.

They do help indirectly - by innoculating the 90% who can take a vaccine, the 10% who can't (for example babies when it comes to measles vaccines) are unlikely to actually catch the disease.

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#260

Post by tim333 »

spullara wrote: post #215

The vaccine was developed in 48 hours (Feb 24th) following China sharing the DNA sequence. How many could we have saved?

Probably a lot. I wonder if we could have some sort of algorithm, or maybe machine learning to maximize human wellbeing for the next pandemic.
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