Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

cyclingtips.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 226 posts

Re: New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

#161

Post by loeg »

dharmab wrote: post #147
to11mtm wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this chain is truly more efficient and/or durable, I would expect them to be selling to two specific markets: - BMX: This market would be all over anything that would be an improvement in durability, and frankly a percentage would just do it for the different tooth design. - Auto: Admittedly, the site for the company that is making this new chain mentions automotive in a blog post, but I don't see anything specifi…

Tangent: BMW has developed a new diamond-coated chain for motorcycles which they claim requires no regular maintenance. (Motorcycle chains, which are external and near the ground, have to be cleaned and re-lubricated every 300-500 miles for maximum life.) https://www.bmwblog.com/2020/08/27/m-endurance-motorbike-cha...

What do they make the cogs out of?

Re: New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

#162

Post by aardvarkr »

pcl wrote: post #158
baybal2 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm afraid this is kind of a scam too. The solution clearly loses on weight/benefit ratio to just making a thicker chain.

At the pro level, bicycles are regularly below regulation weight, and then dead weight is added to get back to spec. So, there is budget for extra weight for higher performance parts. However, the rule of thumb is to minimize rotational weight (e.g., wheels) due to the increase in rotational inertia. I wonder whether chain weight is similarly problematic.

Just for argument’s sake, does rotational weight really give a performance impact? I expect it marginally improves initial acceleration but I also expect top speed is unchanged. Heavier wheels would allow you to coast for longer without needing to pedal (conservation of momentum) but besides the initial acceleration performance is mostly unchanged. Unless you’re constantly stopping and starting idk if it makes much difference. Similarly, I’d expect the chain’s weight to have a minuscule impact on acceleration but the increased efficiency sounds like it is several orders of magnitude beyond whatever trade off there is to a slightly heavier chain.

Re: New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

#164

Post by loeg »

brudgers wrote: post #10

Reduced chain width has significantly changed bicycle drive trains over recent decades. Bicycles have many more usable gears. A manufacturer who pushed a non-standard chain heavily would wound cycle shops. Standardization facilities keeping parts in stock.

Incompatible chains and parts harm end-users, too.

Re: New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

#165

Post by loeg »

alistairSH wrote: post #30
brudgers wrote: post #10

Reduced chain width has significantly changed bicycle drive trains over recent decades. Bicycles have many more usable gears. A manufacturer who pushed a non-standard chain heavily would wound cycle shops. Standardization facilities keeping parts in stock.

I'm not sure that's true. SRAM already went with their own non-compatible design with their latest road groups (AXS road). Bottom bracket "standards" have proliferated over the last 20 years (all 8 of the bikes in my garage use a different system). Hub spacing is non-standard too (100mm/130mm QR, 100/135 QR, 100/135 TA, 100/142 TA, 110/148 TA, Superboost, DH, and a few other niche standards). Even within a brand, the…

The threaded BSA BB has been standard for low-middle end bikes for a long time. Sure there have been a lot of different kinds of pressfit shell, but I would avoid them all except BB86/92 (Shimano).

Hub spacing in QR is standard at 100/130 for road, 100/135 for mountain. Thru-axle is somewhat new and I think we'll standardize on fewer than that eventually. I think some of those are a lot more popular than the others.

Re: New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

#166

Post by loeg »

brudgers wrote: post #98
alistairSH wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that's true. SRAM already went with their own non-compatible design with their latest road groups (AXS road). Bottom bracket "standards" have proliferated over the last 20 years (all 8 of the bikes in my garage use a different system). Hub spacing is non-standard too (100mm/130mm QR, 100/135 QR, 100/135 TA, 100/142 TA, 110/148 TA, Superboost, DH, and a few other niche standards). Even within a brand, the…

I'll cop to $5000 bicycle unfamiliarity and preferring to own one bike at a time. I guess the era of standardized chains is past. So I stand corrected. Thanks. My current bike a late model Brompton, I am familiar with the extents to which other bespoke components is possible and a deliberate choice over something by Bike Friday.

Chains at the same nominal width (e.g., "11 speed") are approximately compatible (Shimano/SRAM).

Re: New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

#167

Post by loeg »

ruined wrote: post #39
petre wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People concerned with dirt do not concern themselves with chain efficiency but rather stuff that removes dirt.

reliability in adverse conditions is an important facet of any design. nobody cares about a new hyperefficient vehicle if it has to operate in a vacuum

This design is made for vacuums. Really. Once your chain is dirty, you're well below the 98% efficiency figure they're competing against.

Re: New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

#168

Post by loeg »

supernova87a wrote: post #135

Trucks use a solid driveshaft to transmit power to the rear axle. Is there any merit to using that idea for bikes? (with a geared transmission?)

It's been done. It didn't take off mostly. Some combination of too heavy or too inefficient or too expensive.

Re: New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

#169

Post by [deleted] »

kenned3 wrote: post #153

Whenever i see things like this, i immediatly think "Audiophile". you know, the $238 "Directionally balanced" Ethernet cables, or the "low oxygen" copper. Once people take their hobby too far, you will end up with things like this. For $2K you can buy our (exotic and unnecessarily expensive metal) chain, which reduces friction to 0 and lasts forever. I ride a fair amount (150-200KM a week in the summers) and am alway…

[deleted]

Re: New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

#170

Post by dharmab »

calvinmorrison wrote: post #154
dharmab wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tangent: BMW has developed a new diamond-coated chain for motorcycles which they claim requires no regular maintenance. (Motorcycle chains, which are external and near the ground, have to be cleaned and re-lubricated every 300-500 miles for maximum life.) https://www.bmwblog.com/2020/08/27/m-endurance-motorbike-cha...

Another point: BMW Motorrad has used driveshafts on their bikes since the 80s. In a conventional setup much like a automobile. The only real majntaining is to lube the end gear which sits in a kind of differential housing (there's no diff, but imagine how a car's driveshaft connects to the rear axle). My bike (a k75) has it and well it's pretty cool!

That's only on the touring models, where the lower maintenance intervals justify the weight and inefficiency. The smaller off-road models like my F750GS and the performance-oriented models like the S1000R use chains for durability/repairability and efficiency.
Post reply on HN