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Here's an example: my friend was not in the mood for breakfast. The host took it as a sign that he was taarofing. He insisted that he wasn't. His persistence was seen as a sign that he really wants breakfast. The only way to make it stop while being polite was to take a bite. He was furious!
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Wow, I very strongly disagree. First of all, as for learning the language, I have no idea why taarof would be an impediment. I mean, I guess if your plan is to exchange a handful of words with a ton of different people, taarof might make up a noticeable portion of your communication, but in language learning it's far better to speak with fewer people and try to have longer conversations. Otherwise you'll never move p…
> I know the invitations were sincere because I was being accompanied by Iranian acquaintances most of the time, doing the translating. 100% taarof - there was another Persian with you, and the custom therefore could absolutely not be disregarded with the solo foreigner. Even if you were alone, the mere potential that you might understand the custom compels its use by your hosts. > For one particular example of Irani…
Huh a similar behavior exists in India where it is polite to say no the first time. However, it is definitely not part of every single social interaction. I have experienced this a lot when being offered food as a guest - my first few refusals are just ignored, as expected.
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Actually, after my month of language lessons in Dushambe I came back to university, and we were a group who had a meeting with the Iranian ambassador here. There was a round of introductions and I said that I had just spent a month in Tajikistan, and the ambassador looked at me and said that it sounded like I had started speaking like those people and I should stop it. In a friendly, "for your own good" sort of tone.
> There was a round of introductions and I said that I had just spent a month in Tajikistan, and the ambassador looked at me and said that it sounded like I had started speaking like those people and I should stop it. In a friendly, "for your own good" sort of tone. And now you've run into another one of our culture's more disgusting trends - bigotry. I'm sorry you had to experience it, and I'm sorry for our people c…
The young Afghan guy I met in Shiraz who was honest with me but told everyone else he was from Mashhad and constantly lived in fear of being found out and fired and dumped by all his friends, that was a lot less funny.
> In the world of taarof, politeness holds the place of honour. In its name, people refuse when they want to accept, say what is not meant, express what is not felt, invite when it is not intended, replace bad news with false hope. By doing so, they try to say what they “wished it were” – without ever admitting that it isn’t. Maybe it’s my Americanism, but I’m absolutely happy this is not how it works here. “Yes is y…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I know the invitations were sincere because I was being accompanied by Iranian acquaintances most of the time, doing the translating. 100% taarof - there was another Persian with you, and the custom therefore could absolutely not be disregarded with the solo foreigner. Even if you were alone, the mere potential that you might understand the custom compels its use by your hosts. > For one particular example of Irani…
Could it be that the extreme forms of taarof you’re seeing happens in some sort of social bubble? I grew up in Iran, I’ve seen and lived with taarof, and I’ve never experienced kind of insincerity you’re describing. Taarof has always been a short back and forth to be gotten over with. The invitations and other acts of generosity on the other hand, have always been sincere.
This is how it appears when you haven't had a chance to study it in depth, but the dark magic of taarof is that it impacts every part of life. No fault of yours; it's so deeply infected our culture as to be practically invisible to anyone who's a part of it.
That's also why I mention the patently ridiculous level of backbiting and backstabbing that takes place in our culture - when people who taarof find themselves having to go through with a false offer, especially one that puts one in a substantially disadvantaged position (the "losing" end of the social transaction), the person on the receiving end often ends up subject to undue scorn down the road, or worse.
It's pretty universal. I've seen it in Tehran, Esfahan, Shiraz, Los Angeles, Toronto, Vancouver, Great Neck NY, and DC, and every time I've seen both the taarof social transaction as well as borne witness to the resulting backbiting days later. I can count examples on many more hands than I physically have, and while these are all anecdotes, I've got a high level of confidence based on just the sheer volume of interactions I've witnessed that this is one of the single worst aspects of our culture.
I apologize if my passion on the topic is coming off a bit too strong. I've seen livelihoods ruined because of it.
Huh a similar behavior exists in India where it is polite to say no the first time. However, it is definitely not part of every single social interaction. I have experienced this a lot when being offered food as a guest - my first few refusals are just ignored, as expected.
definitely exists in India to a large degree. I personally find it annoying that actual refusals don't carry much weight, because they are most often interpreted as rituals of politeness towards an eventual "yes". sometimes, I actually just want to say "no".
Tarof is so infuriating that, if you are a foreigner who wants to learn Persian, going to Tajikistan instead might be recommended: I don't know if the practice never quite existed there in such an extreme form, or the Soviets stamped it out, but communicating with Tajiks is always so much more straightforward than with Iranians. What always apalls me is foreigners traveling in Iran who rave about how hospitable the l…
Would Iranians expect foreigners to understand and play along? Surely not.
I definitely didn't perceive that the invitations were anything but sincere at the time, but now I'll never know for sure.
As a Persian aspie I feel this wastes time, and I prefer the blunt and direct communication style of the Dutch.