11–20 of 84 posts
What a wonderfully odd tradition. I wonder if there's a evolutionary psychology take on it. I bet it does some heavy lifting in the culture. Something about the tragedy of commons maybe.
Tarof is so infuriating that, if you are a foreigner who wants to learn Persian, going to Tajikistan instead might be recommended: I don't know if the practice never quite existed there in such an extreme form, or the Soviets stamped it out, but communicating with Tajiks is always so much more straightforward than with Iranians. What always apalls me is foreigners traveling in Iran who rave about how hospitable the l…
Also, if you learn to speak like a Tajik, Iranians will probably think you're dim, or at least sound like it.
But yeah, I remember eating out alone in one of my first nights in Iran, so already marked as a weirdo, of course, and the waiter says "Qabel nadare!" when I ask for the bill, and I'm very confused, and I get out my dictionary because I don't know the word, and he just starts repeating the phrase louder and louder at me like they joke about the English doing when someone doesn't speak English... it just wasn't a good time for anyone. I did pay, though.
Tarof is so infuriating that, if you are a foreigner who wants to learn Persian, going to Tajikistan instead might be recommended: I don't know if the practice never quite existed there in such an extreme form, or the Soviets stamped it out, but communicating with Tajiks is always so much more straightforward than with Iranians. What always apalls me is foreigners traveling in Iran who rave about how hospitable the l…
I've been to Iran and taarof never even crossed my mind as a possible impediment to learning the language. (Amusingly, I stayed with some Iranians that didn't speak anything I spoke, so I was forced to learn some Farsi, which was a lovely time!)
And the Iranian people _are_ very hospitable, taarof aside. When I traveled to Iran I was invited into many homes, and I know the invitations were sincere because I was being accompanied by Iranian acquaintances most of the time, doing the translating. For one particular example of Iranian friendliness, in college an Iranian friend of mine was concerned that I wasn't eating healthily enough, so every time he saw me after that (most days of the week) he made me sandwiches.
Furthermore, taarof is part of the Iranian culture. These little cultural differences are what makes this world beautiful, and not some mass of efficiently-communicating Soylent-drinking robots.
Tarof is so infuriating that, if you are a foreigner who wants to learn Persian, going to Tajikistan instead might be recommended: I don't know if the practice never quite existed there in such an extreme form, or the Soviets stamped it out, but communicating with Tajiks is always so much more straightforward than with Iranians. What always apalls me is foreigners traveling in Iran who rave about how hospitable the l…
Tajikistan is a very different vibe to Iran, though. There's not much cosmopolitan about Dushambe. Also, if you learn to speak like a Tajik, Iranians will probably think you're dim, or at least sound like it. But yeah, I remember eating out alone in one of my first nights in Iran, so already marked as a weirdo, of course, and the waiter says "Qabel nadare!" when I ask for the bill, and I'm very confused, and I get ou…
But we won't tell it to your face. We'll be quite nice to you up front (taarof) and then will backbite like nobody's business.
If you want to learn Farsi (or Tajik), please, go to Tajikistan. For your own good, learn it there instead. Or Kabul, for that matter.
Tarof is so infuriating that, if you are a foreigner who wants to learn Persian, going to Tajikistan instead might be recommended: I don't know if the practice never quite existed there in such an extreme form, or the Soviets stamped it out, but communicating with Tajiks is always so much more straightforward than with Iranians. What always apalls me is foreigners traveling in Iran who rave about how hospitable the l…
Wow, I very strongly disagree. First of all, as for learning the language, I have no idea why taarof would be an impediment. I mean, I guess if your plan is to exchange a handful of words with a ton of different people, taarof might make up a noticeable portion of your communication, but in language learning it's far better to speak with fewer people and try to have longer conversations. Otherwise you'll never move p…
100% taarof - there was another Persian with you, and the custom therefore could absolutely not be disregarded with the solo foreigner. Even if you were alone, the mere potential that you might understand the custom compels its use by your hosts.
> For one particular example of Iranian friendliness, in college an Iranian friend of mine was concerned that I wasn't eating healthily enough, so every time he saw me after that (most days of the week) he made me sandwiches.
Also very likely taarof. Even my mother does this in spite of my persistent requests for her not to (specifically when I invoke my unhealthy relationship with food in order for her to stop) because she feels an obligation to do so in spite of my pleas. It's a custom she can't shake.
I'm speaking from direct, immersive experience when I say that the complexities of taarof are very likely to be misinterpreted by those not truly and thoroughly immersed.
And it is absolutely one of our culture's worst traditions. It absolutely must go.
Tarof is so infuriating that, if you are a foreigner who wants to learn Persian, going to Tajikistan instead might be recommended: I don't know if the practice never quite existed there in such an extreme form, or the Soviets stamped it out, but communicating with Tajiks is always so much more straightforward than with Iranians. What always apalls me is foreigners traveling in Iran who rave about how hospitable the l…
Wow, I very strongly disagree. First of all, as for learning the language, I have no idea why taarof would be an impediment. I mean, I guess if your plan is to exchange a handful of words with a ton of different people, taarof might make up a noticeable portion of your communication, but in language learning it's far better to speak with fewer people and try to have longer conversations. Otherwise you'll never move p…
This made me wonder what taarof prescribes about translating taarof prescribed offers.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Tajikistan is a very different vibe to Iran, though. There's not much cosmopolitan about Dushambe. Also, if you learn to speak like a Tajik, Iranians will probably think you're dim, or at least sound like it. But yeah, I remember eating out alone in one of my first nights in Iran, so already marked as a weirdo, of course, and the waiter says "Qabel nadare!" when I ask for the bill, and I'm very confused, and I get ou…
> Iranians will probably think you're dim, or at least sound like it. But we won't tell it to your face. We'll be quite nice to you up front (taarof) and then will backbite like nobody's business. If you want to learn Farsi (or Tajik), please, go to Tajikistan. For your own good, learn it there instead. Or Kabul, for that matter.
Tarof is so infuriating that, if you are a foreigner who wants to learn Persian, going to Tajikistan instead might be recommended: I don't know if the practice never quite existed there in such an extreme form, or the Soviets stamped it out, but communicating with Tajiks is always so much more straightforward than with Iranians. What always apalls me is foreigners traveling in Iran who rave about how hospitable the l…
Tajikistan and Afghanistan do not have nearly this level of indirection (misdirection?) integrated into their cultures, and yet they both speak variants of the same beautiful language (Tajik/Dari). I'd strongly support either, and Tajikistan has the support of the DoD, so that's naturally a better answer for Americans with interest.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Iranians will probably think you're dim, or at least sound like it. But we won't tell it to your face. We'll be quite nice to you up front (taarof) and then will backbite like nobody's business. If you want to learn Farsi (or Tajik), please, go to Tajikistan. For your own good, learn it there instead. Or Kabul, for that matter.
Actually, after my month of language lessons in Dushambe I came back to university, and we were a group who had a meeting with the Iranian ambassador here. There was a round of introductions and I said that I had just spent a month in Tajikistan, and the ambassador looked at me and said that it sounded like I had started speaking like those people and I should stop it. In a friendly, "for your own good" sort of tone.
And now you've run into another one of our culture's more disgusting trends - bigotry.
I'm sorry you had to experience it, and I'm sorry for our people consistently dumping on Tajik and Afghan peoples. I'm embarrassed you had to witness that kind of casual bigotry; there's nothing invalid about any group of people for any reason, including dialect.
Second and third generation westernized Persians will do a much better job of accepting you for your effort at learning the language without taking pot shots at how you learned it or from whom you learned it.
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-2 points, yikes. Never change, HN.