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New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

cyclingtips.com

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Re: New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

#21

Post by alistairSH »

leoh wrote: post #9

Great chain, but the Gates Carbon Drive is likely a superior technology. Europe has largely adopted it, but it is rare in the states. I have a Riese & Müller bike with a Gates Carbon Drive and it is absolutely lovely. Silent, but best of all, no grease on my pants or hands, ever. They handle dirt and dust super well (just dry off and wipe down with a cloth/no gears get jammed with a sealed planetary gear system). It…

How do you handle gears with the belt? Most of the bike I've seen in the US that use the system are single-speeds. I suppose you could use a internally-geared hub, but a Rohloff is mega-expensive and the Shimano offerings leave a lot to be desired.

Re: New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

#22

Post by GhostVII »

leoh wrote: post #9

Great chain, but the Gates Carbon Drive is likely a superior technology. Europe has largely adopted it, but it is rare in the states. I have a Riese & Müller bike with a Gates Carbon Drive and it is absolutely lovely. Silent, but best of all, no grease on my pants or hands, ever. They handle dirt and dust super well (just dry off and wipe down with a cloth/no gears get jammed with a sealed planetary gear system). It…

If you want to shift gears using the carbon drive you have to use an internal gear hub, which has a lot less range than a traditional derailleur and is less efficient. So if you are riding a racing or mountain bike a chain system is probably a better way to go.

Also it looks like you can't shift under load with the internal hubs which is a problem if you are trying to climb hills quickly.

Re: New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

#23

Post by pengaru »

Unless I'm mistaken, the efficiency gain is from shortening the length of the pivoting pins to just what's required for connecting the conventional outside chain links to the saddles.

In a conventional chain the pins cross the sprocket teeth and must rotate across that entire width; more frictional loss.

In this design the saddle seats on the tooth, and just the relatively short pins linking the saddle to the outside chain must pivot.

Re: New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

#24

Post by toxik »

leoh wrote: post #9

Great chain, but the Gates Carbon Drive is likely a superior technology. Europe has largely adopted it, but it is rare in the states. I have a Riese & Müller bike with a Gates Carbon Drive and it is absolutely lovely. Silent, but best of all, no grease on my pants or hands, ever. They handle dirt and dust super well (just dry off and wipe down with a cloth/no gears get jammed with a sealed planetary gear system). It…

I have seen maybe one driveshaft based bike, and I’m European, and that was at the school of mechanical engineering.

Re: New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

#25

Post by petre »

jandrese wrote: post #8

How well can these handle dirt and debris? It looks like a high precision connection which makes me slightly worried that an errant grain of sand or just an accumulation of road grime might jam up the works.

People concerned with dirt do not concern themselves with chain efficiency but rather stuff that removes dirt.

Re: New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

#26

Post by lostlogin »

usrusr wrote: post #11

I really don't get it: what power are they claiming to be transferring on the side of the tooth that isn't engaging with a roller chain? Also note that this is only for track bikes with a perfectly straight chainline (technically speaking it would also work for internal gear hubs wish are increasingly driven by belts in the upper price range). The shifting chain that is deployed diagonally more often than straight is…

Internal hubs are amazing and so great to use, until you get a puncture. It’s such a nightmare and I went through so many of those dumb proprietary nuts that strip so easily. Bikes like the Cannondale Bad Boy have got me thinking, what if the single fork was at the rear? Then you could have an internal hub and change the tube without the extra suffering. Yes, the loading at the read would be significantly greater, but if it were possible it would make internal hubs much better.

Re: New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

#27

Post by kleer001 »

GhostVII wrote: post #22
leoh wrote: post #9

Great chain, but the Gates Carbon Drive is likely a superior technology. Europe has largely adopted it, but it is rare in the states. I have a Riese & Müller bike with a Gates Carbon Drive and it is absolutely lovely. Silent, but best of all, no grease on my pants or hands, ever. They handle dirt and dust super well (just dry off and wipe down with a cloth/no gears get jammed with a sealed planetary gear system). It…

If you want to shift gears using the carbon drive you have to use an internal gear hub, which has a lot less range than a traditional derailleur and is less efficient. So if you are riding a racing or mountain bike a chain system is probably a better way to go. Also it looks like you can't shift under load with the internal hubs which is a problem if you are trying to climb hills quickly.

> a lot less range

Maybe in the more popular implementations like from Shimano. But there's internal hubs with greater ratio spread than chained: The Rohloff:

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/internal-gears.html

Re: New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

#28

Post by ska »

usrusr wrote: post #11

I really don't get it: what power are they claiming to be transferring on the side of the tooth that isn't engaging with a roller chain? Also note that this is only for track bikes with a perfectly straight chainline (technically speaking it would also work for internal gear hubs wish are increasingly driven by belts in the upper price range). The shifting chain that is deployed diagonally more often than straight is…

I don't think they are claiming any power is transferred by the other side, just that it forces a more uniform fit and distributed the power transfer over more teeth.

Re: New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

#29

Post by uoaei »

toxik wrote: post #24
leoh wrote: post #9

Great chain, but the Gates Carbon Drive is likely a superior technology. Europe has largely adopted it, but it is rare in the states. I have a Riese & Müller bike with a Gates Carbon Drive and it is absolutely lovely. Silent, but best of all, no grease on my pants or hands, ever. They handle dirt and dust super well (just dry off and wipe down with a cloth/no gears get jammed with a sealed planetary gear system). It…

I have seen maybe one driveshaft based bike, and I’m European, and that was at the school of mechanical engineering.

It is a belt drive system, not a driveshaft-based system.

Re: New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

#30

Post by alistairSH »

brudgers wrote: post #10

Reduced chain width has significantly changed bicycle drive trains over recent decades. Bicycles have many more usable gears. A manufacturer who pushed a non-standard chain heavily would wound cycle shops. Standardization facilities keeping parts in stock.

I'm not sure that's true.

SRAM already went with their own non-compatible design with their latest road groups (AXS road). Bottom bracket "standards" have proliferated over the last 20 years (all 8 of the bikes in my garage use a different system). Hub spacing is non-standard too (100mm/130mm QR, 100/135 QR, 100/135 TA, 100/142 TA, 110/148 TA, Superboost, DH, and a few other niche standards). Even within a brand, there's no guarantee shifters and detailers are compatible.

Basically, the industry has "standards" but only keeps them long enough to develop the next. Gotta keep us buying $5000+ bicycles somehow.

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