Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

McKinsey Proposed Paying Pharmacy Companies Rebates for OxyContin Overdoses

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 110 posts

Re: McKinsey Proposed Paying Pharmacy Companies Rebates for OxyContin Overdoses

#71

Post by smabie »

cool_dude85 wrote: post #64
troughway wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forgive me for sounding daft. I feel reluctant taking one Tylenol pill nevermind anything close to this - how exactly have you had at least eight friends die? Was it accidental? Uncontrolled dosage? Suicide? Do you forget that you had taken it already? I keep hearing about the opioid deaths and the crisis but what exactly happens that these people overdose on it?

They're addicted to opioids and are, while under the influence of opioids, not making sound health decisions.

They're making sound (short term) decisions, it just doesn't look that way on the outside.

Re: McKinsey Proposed Paying Pharmacy Companies Rebates for OxyContin Overdoses

#72

Post by marcinzm »

zug_zug wrote: post #53
marcinzm wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A justice system that applies equally to everyone should not require immense effort from private unrelated individuals to do it's job.

I'd like to live in that world too, but since we don't I think it's reasonable to ask for suggestions that apply to the world we DO live in.

Telling people to not point out that the world is broken is not how you fix the world. Accepting there is a problem is the first step to a solution.

Re: McKinsey Proposed Paying Pharmacy Companies Rebates for OxyContin Overdoses

#73

Post by [deleted] »

disown wrote: post #40
a3n wrote: post #2

We are all merely resources to corporations, politicians and law enforcement.

They don't call it the human resources department for no reason... If you look at cities/modern civilization, it's really no different from an industrial farm. People who run industrial farms are focused on the production of the livestock - aka the productive value of each head of cattle, each chicken, etc. People who run cities are focused on the production of every head of human. Notice the uptick in "How do I get…

[deleted]

Re: McKinsey Proposed Paying Pharmacy Companies Rebates for OxyContin Overdoses

#74

Post by zug_zug »

marcinzm wrote: post #72
zug_zug wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to live in that world too, but since we don't I think it's reasonable to ask for suggestions that apply to the world we DO live in.

Telling people to not point out that the world is broken is not how you fix the world. Accepting there is a problem is the first step to a solution.

I agree. However, in the case of the opioid epidemic I think we're way past the stage of identifying that there is a problem.

The next step with any issue (black lives matter, big bank bailout) is to take a complex systemic issue and find specific, realistic changes that can help with the problem, before people get apathetic/resign.

Re: McKinsey Proposed Paying Pharmacy Companies Rebates for OxyContin Overdoses

#75

Post by nobody9999 »

spanktheuser wrote: post #26

Moral absolutism has been out of vogue for 50 years, but I encourage everyone to give it a spin. It’s provides such wonderful moral clarity and said clarity is surprisingly effective at rooting out the sort of poisonous people who ruin friendships, companies and societies. I’ve dealt with numerous McKinsey consultants over a 30 year career. I’ve collected enough data points to feel safe in concluding the following: •…

Having spent some years as an employee of several consulting firms (with an IT focus, not management/McKinsey style), I can comfortably say that a primary goal of a professional services organization is to maximize realization[0] and profitability.

When the goal of an organization is maximization of revenue/profit to the exclusion of all else, it's not unusual to see laxity in ethical standards.

The mechanism for doing so is to provide quality[1] service and leave the customer satisfied. The article makes it clear that the Sackler family felt this was true for the services provided by McKinsey.

You'll note that those are similar metrics that are associated with sex workers. The primary difference between consultants and prostitutes is that being the former is usually (but not always) less degrading.

None of the above should be all that surprising to anyone. The question then becomes: "What, if anything, should we do about it?"

I posit that we should make the costs of ethical lapses higher than the potential profit of same.

We certainly don't have that now. Perhaps we should work to change that?

[0] https://www.hainesandlagerquist.com/understanding-utilizatio...

[1] 'Quality' in this context is generally defined as "achieving whatever result the client desires."

Re: McKinsey Proposed Paying Pharmacy Companies Rebates for OxyContin Overdoses

#76

Post by sudosysgen »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #43
sudosysgen wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've redefined resource to be literally anything, in an attempt of coming to a materialist worldview. There's three important attributes of resources. Firstly, resources of a same type, defined by their use, are fungible. Secondly, resources are a means to an end. Lastly, resources are valuable either because of their uses or because they can be exchanged. Now, love, fulfillment, and the feeling of friendship reali…

There are many abstract concepts included in the definition of the word resources. You’re trying to argue that it means computable wealth and absolutely nothing else. Which is very obviously ridiculous, and it’s hard to see this comment as anything other than an attempt to start some pointless semantic debate.

I'm certainly not saying that it is equivalent to comptable wealth. Political power fits all three criteria and is not comptable wealth, so does any other kind of resource one could think of.

Re: McKinsey Proposed Paying Pharmacy Companies Rebates for OxyContin Overdoses

#77

Post by newbie789 »

troughway wrote: post #60
newbie789 wrote: post #55

I've at this point had (at least) eight friends die from opioid overdoses in the past ~10 years. I myself was nearly one of them a long time ago. It's really disappointing to see this bullshit.

Forgive me for sounding daft. I feel reluctant taking one Tylenol pill nevermind anything close to this - how exactly have you had at least eight friends die? Was it accidental? Uncontrolled dosage? Suicide? Do you forget that you had taken it already? I keep hearing about the opioid deaths and the crisis but what exactly happens that these people overdose on it?

Heroin. Every single time. It's of wildly varying strength (and price) these days apparently. My first couple friends dying are what led to me getting clean around nine years ago.

The vast majority of them (if not all) also took oxy before/during their stints with IV heroin. This is obviously anecdotal but that's what I've seen!

Edit to clarify: Generally it's been accidental as far as I can tell, there have been two instances where it might've been suicide. Generally one way to think about the heroin problem would be: Imagine wine (which is normally 14% abv and costs let's say, $20) but sometimes it's 100% abv and costs $20, or 5% abv and costs $30, or 7% abv and $100, or 75% abv and $0.99 and you can't tell until you buy it and try it.

Re: McKinsey Proposed Paying Pharmacy Companies Rebates for OxyContin Overdoses

#78

Post by newbie789 »

s5300 wrote: post #65
troughway wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forgive me for sounding daft. I feel reluctant taking one Tylenol pill nevermind anything close to this - how exactly have you had at least eight friends die? Was it accidental? Uncontrolled dosage? Suicide? Do you forget that you had taken it already? I keep hearing about the opioid deaths and the crisis but what exactly happens that these people overdose on it?

Heroin (an opioid) is known to bring quite literally the happiest euphoria known to man. You can read this sentiment of it just about everywhere. For simplicity - take it as exactly that: a drug that induces the feeling of the happiest warmth imaginable Then, realize, some people come from absolutely fucked and broken lives. Being beaten and raped by their own family members they have to live with (sometimes for year…

This is absolutely correct!

Re: McKinsey Proposed Paying Pharmacy Companies Rebates for OxyContin Overdoses

#79

Post by TheCoelacanth »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #16

It's absolutely infuriating that no one is being prosecuted over this. Meanwhile, Kalief Browder was jailed without trial for three years — for allegedly stealing a backpack. We truly do have two justice systems.

How is this not murder? They are literally paying someone money to kill someone.

Re: McKinsey Proposed Paying Pharmacy Companies Rebates for OxyContin Overdoses

#80

Post by swasheck »

com2kid wrote: post #67
jagrsw wrote: post #35

~10 years ago I was visiting the Bay Area (I live in EU), and developed knee pain (rather strong). I went to the emergency room in a city hospital, and long story short, I was given a prescription for paracetamol or ibuprofen and something called Norco, which is apparently some kind of opioid. In the pharmacy (CVS i think), the pharmacist was calling somewhere to confirm the prescription and my identity and was tryin…

ERs are expensive. An urgent care clinic would have gotten you quicker results at a lower cost. Typically I've waited under 30 minutes, and now days some have online wait time estimators, and at larger facilities x-rays are right down the hall.

That we have to know and navigate the intricacies of healthcare and the nuances between urgent and emergent care is ridiculous in my opinion. Then you have to worry about whether the dr on shift is in network even though you’ve verified the facility is
Post reply on HN