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Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

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Re: Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

#91

Post by Rochus »

aphroz wrote: post #3

Not at all. Yes Switzerland is probably the best country if you want to follow the rules, have a good quality of life and good education for your children. Not much for developers who are looking for interesting challenges. This is due to the mentality of the population and the risk aversion of the investors. From a Swiss person.

>> Not much for developers who are looking for interesting challenges .. From a Swiss person

This is simply not true. I'm Swiss and working as a developer and consultant in Switzerland since the nineties. I - as many others - was able to do several studies at a world-class university right on my doorstep without getting into debt. People are fair, hardworking, innovative and responsible. Switzerland has ideal conditions for companies and people looking for work. And it's a great place to live. Why do you think Google and others have large development departments in Switzerland? And it's also good for start-ups. Have a look at e.g. https://www.organisator.ch/die-100-besten-startups-der-schwe... and https://www.top100startups.swiss/index.cfm?page=136340&cfid=....

Also see e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Swiss_companies_by_rev....

Re: Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

#92

Post by durnygbur »

dnet wrote: post #46
ThePhysicist wrote: post #10

I wonder why they don't mention Doodle, which is probably one of the best-known Swiss-made software solutions. Personally I use Tresorit (end-to-end encrypted Dropbox alternative), which is also made in Switzerland. And then there's Protonmail of course.

Tresorit comes from Hungary, they just made a business entity in Switzerland to look better from security/privacy perspective. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tresorit#History

My favourite is Luxoft incorporating in Switzerland so instead of "Russian outsourcing sweatshop" they can claim to be "Swiss fintech".

Re: Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

#93

Post by throwaway123409 »

To me, Hanoi is the future of the startup world:

- surprisingly libertarian pro-buisness environment

- super low cost of living

- supportive of expats working for american incorperated companies

- easy visas

- wonderful culture

- great dating life

- safe if you don’t go looking for trouble

- instead of having to qualify for goverment benefits, the goverment controls prices for nessecities for everyone.

- rapidly improving political environment/infrastructure

- very little online censorship compared to China

- China adjacent but resists Chinese influence

Re: Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

#95

Post by rjsw »

izacus wrote: post #77
aphroz wrote: post #3

Not at all. Yes Switzerland is probably the best country if you want to follow the rules, have a good quality of life and good education for your children. Not much for developers who are looking for interesting challenges. This is due to the mentality of the population and the risk aversion of the investors. From a Swiss person.

Exactly. It's an amazing place to live, has good tech scene, but it's not Silicon Valley. Also the economic focus is completely different - they focus on small enterprises and medium sized businesses which form a significantly more resilient economy (there's a reason why Switzerland did rather well in this pandemic). Asking why the Swiss don't invest in same industries like Californians do would be like asking Morroc…

> like asking Morrocans why they don't fund an Alpine ski jumping team.

Ski jumping is a Nordic event not Alpine. There are a fair number of Morrocan Alpine ski racers.

Re: Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

#96

Post by lordnacho »

proxyrax wrote: post #62

I wish. I hold a citizenship in an EU country (Lithuania) and would love to spend some time working in Europe closer to family. Swiss/EU bilateral agreements would allow me to work there easily, but every time I do some research it seems the (lack of) bureaucracy, compensation, and culture of innovation just pales in comparison to US tech hubs. Here in the US, I can spin up an LLC by clicking a few buttons on one of…

I've started corporate entities in several countries, and Switzerland wasn't exactly hard.

People seem to confuse the cost of doing it with the initial capital required. In Switzerland, as in Germany, there's a little version and a big version, GmbH and AG.

Speaking for Switzerland, you need CHF20K to do the GmbH and 100K for the AG. But you actually only need 50K cash for the AG because it doesn't all have to be paid up.

In terms of legal difference, there isn't really any, according to a couple of my Swiss accountants. It's more that if you risk 100K (it's still at risk even though it's not paid up) your business partners might see you differently. Having said that Google went for the little one.

Now if you are starting a business, chances are you are going to need 20K in some bank account anyway. Even a very small business needs some funds. The cost is simply the notarizing cost, ie the cost of making it official, and whatever your legal guy charges. Not much, and it gets done pretty fast. More than 100USD though, for sure.

The UK was super easy as well. Here you just pay the accountant and he does the Companies House stuff for you. You can probably DIY it to save a couple hundred quid, plus the capital requirement is £1 or some trivial amount.

Other European countries don't make it a whole lot harder. I think the difference is greater in how easy it is to establish your new business as a viable entity. Customers, suppliers need to be open to doing business with you, and that varies a lot across locations and industries.

Re: Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

#98

Post by durnygbur »

Gwypaas wrote: post #30
mkl95 wrote: post #18

Trust me, there is no such thing as a European Silicon Valley, and there won't be one any time soon.

I wonder if Stockholm is the closest? At least in VC per capita. Also really easy to start a company.

The problem with Stockholm is that you'll have to rent a place to stay, which is a nightmare.

Re: Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

#99

Post by sologoub »

gumby wrote: post #82
sologoub wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Off topic, but Strauss brand is fairly local and quality is amazing: https://www.strausfamilycreamery.com/

There is local produce even closer (e.g. half moon bay and San Jose) but they days of watching wheat harvesting next to Intel HQ, or cherry production next door to Cadence HQ are gone. Where Google is now was bean fields I used to cut through after saving my emacs buffer at work.

Not sure which of the many of their offices you are talking about, but the main Googleplex looks to be on a superfund site from previous semiconductor manufacturers - not an ideal agricultural site.

Edit: Link to map: https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/toxic-plumes-the-dark-...

Used to live in HMB, but don’t recall a creamery. Definitely some cool small producers in Pescadero still.

Re: Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

#100

Post by AlexTDS1 »

eternalban wrote: post #47
mkl95 wrote: post #18

Trust me, there is no such thing as a European Silicon Valley, and there won't be one any time soon.

The French have a shot at this, if there is political will in Paris. Closest thing to SV in France is Toulouse: a major university; defense and related tech industries; lots of competent world class engineers; and an attractive locale.

As someone that studied and lives in Toulouse this I disagree. We have good universities, but the best one is in economics. The whole city works around Airbus. When they aren't doing well the whole city is doing terribly. Most software engineers here work for subcontracting companies that are heavily linked to the aerospace business. Finding different lines of work recently have been really hard due to those subcontracting companies looking for new contracts outside of the space. Unless there's a solid political decision to implement more research facilities outside of the aerospace industry then other companies will start coming. But for now compared to places in the region such as Montpellier I find we're really behind other cities.
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