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Tiny Homes Won’t Fix the Housing Crisis

thewalrus.ca

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Re: Tiny Homes Won’t Fix the Housing Crisis

#21

Post by holstvoogd »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #11

To put it in context, this is a Canadian magazine, and here in Canada the housing market is just absolutely insanely irrational. There has been no downwards housing price "correction" since the early 90s. The 2008 bubble-pop never happened here. Interest rates remain at record lows and the COVID-19 crisis seems to have led to massive _increase_ in housing prices rather than a decrease. It's a huge distorted market wi…

> The 2008 bubble-pop never happened here.

I live in the Netherlands and that seems to be roughly what happened here too. ~~I mean, yes the prices have dropped a tiny bit around 2008, but in 2009 they were at an all time high again and have not come down.~~

EDIT: This was a lie, turns out they bottomed out around 2013 at ~25% below the 2008 peak.

I live in a 'provincial' city, where prices are ~40-50% of what you might see in the big cities (i.e Amsterdam). With my income, which is well above median, only about 20-30% (2 to 3 % at median income according to the news iirc) of the homes that go on sale are within my mortgage limit. And to solve the on going housing shortages they are building a few new neighborhoods where, surprise, surprise, all houses start at 2 or 3 times that limit...

I have read that one of the reasons this happens, is that _everyone_ expect the buyer is better of if prices are higher. Thus brokers, appraiser and sellers all keep driving up the prices. As long as there are more buyers than houses this will keep driving up prices. And the big building companies, that do entire neighborhoods, are quite happy to keep the market scarce.

Re: Tiny Homes Won’t Fix the Housing Crisis

#22

Post by dirtyid »

The fact that a country as large and sparse as Canada has to contemplate tiny homes to address housing is ridiculous. Never mind that the speculative construction market has been churning out tiny condo equivalents.

I lived in _much_ denser cities with their own speculative real estate market, but the developers haven't resorted to "optimizing" units as aggressively as the micro-condos I've seen in Toronto. The one bedrooms / studios are about as large as apartments in Beijing / Shanghai. But 2-3 bedrooms new constructions feel dramatically smaller. Being Canada, these units will negatively impact generations.

Re: Tiny Homes Won’t Fix the Housing Crisis

#23

Post by anovikov »

Pet_Ant wrote: post #18
anovikov wrote: post #7

There is no housing crisis. U.S. has more than plenty of good quality, large, and more than affordable houses (many of them are probably beyond repair but this is a consequence of their abundance and lack of demand). Housing crisis is only about the very few already overpopulated spots being hyper-attractive for people to move in because that's where opportunities are. There is no way to "fix" this because even if ho…

> Housing crisis is only about the very few already overpopulated spots being hyper-attractive for people to move in because that's where opportunities are. Why not build hyper-dense housing? If you have functional public spaces you don't need as much private space. We used to have boarding houses etc. I don't need my own bathroom, I need a bathroom. I rarely use my kitchen, I just need access to one.

How about commuting? Pollution? School, hospital and other public services capacity? Crime arising from simply the rich place being affordable, inviting undesirables?

Re: Tiny Homes Won’t Fix the Housing Crisis

#24

Post by kube-system »

chefkoch wrote: post #12
greggman3 wrote: post #5

I don't have a clue what any solution looks like or even what problem is trying to be solved. Growing up in the USA home "ownership" is always touted as an investment but for example in Japan, it's often more like buying a car. The moment you buy it it's a used house and the price goes down just like a car would. The point being home ownership is viewed differently. Also, the recent episode of the Flash Forward podca…

> They complained that 60% of people on minimum wage can't afford a 2 bedroom apartment in the USA but coming from Tokyo my first thought was "why is the standard a 2 bedroom apartment?" Perhabs to have a second bedroom for kids?

I don't think the person you are replying to is actually confused about what someone would do with more space, but instead, making a point about cultural standards.

Re: Tiny Homes Won’t Fix the Housing Crisis

#25

Post by sesuximo »

Pet_Ant wrote: post #16

We need to start building tiny soviet style apartments: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQgaCwrQQy8 Add to that some "coffin" motels. Once people have a place to sleep near a place they can work they can start moving upwards. My mom grew up in one, and I stayed with my grandma in one every time I visited. Sure, I slept on the kitchen floor, but it's not that bad.

Or we could stop putting everyone’s jobs in the same 10 towns and use a bit more space

Re: Tiny Homes Won’t Fix the Housing Crisis

#26

Post by adflux »

holstvoogd wrote: post #21
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #11

To put it in context, this is a Canadian magazine, and here in Canada the housing market is just absolutely insanely irrational. There has been no downwards housing price "correction" since the early 90s. The 2008 bubble-pop never happened here. Interest rates remain at record lows and the COVID-19 crisis seems to have led to massive _increase_ in housing prices rather than a decrease. It's a huge distorted market wi…

> The 2008 bubble-pop never happened here. I live in the Netherlands and that seems to be roughly what happened here too. ~~I mean, yes the prices have dropped a tiny bit around 2008, but in 2009 they were at an all time high again and have not come down.~~ EDIT: This was a lie, turns out they bottomed out around 2013 at ~25% below the 2008 peak. I live in a 'provincial' city, where prices are ~40-50% of what you mig…

I also live in the Netherlands. I am starting to believe there is something a bit more nefarious at play here.

Anyone who is in power owns a house. Anyone who owns a house profits from house prices increasing. Who benefits if house prices go down? A select few, who are currently unable to buy a house. There is little incentive to actually start building affordable housing. Actually, most people who already own house(s) are probably very happy with the way the market is currently working.

Re: Tiny Homes Won’t Fix the Housing Crisis

#27

Post by MattGaiser »

dirtyid wrote: post #22

The fact that a country as large and sparse as Canada has to contemplate tiny homes to address housing is ridiculous. Never mind that the speculative construction market has been churning out tiny condo equivalents. I lived in _much_ denser cities with their own speculative real estate market, but the developers haven't resorted to "optimizing" units as aggressively as the micro-condos I've seen in Toronto. The one b…

Nobody is willing to live outside of a few major cities and everyone here demands a detached house. There is a very strong stigma about living in anything without a lawn after 30ish.

Re: Tiny Homes Won’t Fix the Housing Crisis

#28

Post by dirtyid »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #11

To put it in context, this is a Canadian magazine, and here in Canada the housing market is just absolutely insanely irrational. There has been no downwards housing price "correction" since the early 90s. The 2008 bubble-pop never happened here. Interest rates remain at record lows and the COVID-19 crisis seems to have led to massive _increase_ in housing prices rather than a decrease. It's a huge distorted market wi…

Housing pressure in the few "tier1" Canadian cities like Toronto will only rise, especially with immigration and presumably inflation from covid debt. Simply too many transnational millionaires and too few cities in Canada with opportunities.

Re: Tiny Homes Won’t Fix the Housing Crisis

#29

Post by sokoloff »

ghaff wrote: post #15
chefkoch wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They complained that 60% of people on minimum wage can't afford a 2 bedroom apartment in the USA but coming from Tokyo my first thought was "why is the standard a 2 bedroom apartment?" Perhabs to have a second bedroom for kids?

Even leaving aside kids, even decades ago when I rented, I really liked having a separate office. Also guest bedroom, hobby room, etc. Even as a single person I appreciated having a two bedroom apartment.

If everyone, minimum wage and white collar alike, is bidding for housing in the same, limited market, it hardy seems surprising that “housing with more/extra rooms” might be bid out of reach of those least able to pay.

I don’t see people arguing why you shouldn’t want extra bedrooms so much as lamenting that some can’t afford two of them.

Re: Tiny Homes Won’t Fix the Housing Crisis

#30

Post by lanevorockz »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #11

To put it in context, this is a Canadian magazine, and here in Canada the housing market is just absolutely insanely irrational. There has been no downwards housing price "correction" since the early 90s. The 2008 bubble-pop never happened here. Interest rates remain at record lows and the COVID-19 crisis seems to have led to massive _increase_ in housing prices rather than a decrease. It's a huge distorted market wi…

Simple, more immigration means people need more homes. That's why the term house crisis doesn't make any sense. It's all artificial and made up by the government.
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