Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tiny Homes Won’t Fix the Housing Crisis

thewalrus.ca

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 107 posts

Re: Tiny Homes Won’t Fix the Housing Crisis

#11

Post by cmrdporcupine »

To put it in context, this is a Canadian magazine, and here in Canada the housing market is just absolutely insanely irrational. There has been no downwards housing price "correction" since the early 90s. The 2008 bubble-pop never happened here. Interest rates remain at record lows and the COVID-19 crisis seems to have led to massive _increase_ in housing prices rather than a decrease. It's a huge distorted market with real estate, construction, and renovations etc. being the largest part of our Ontario provincial economy with primary industry, etc. declining every year. It all feels just insane.

My little hobby farm has probably "doubled" in the 8.5 years I've owned it, but I don't feel great about it -- where will my kids live? Where will I retire to? When will this all blow up in our faces? My 70 year old father in law would love to retire, and sell his place and somehow reduce his costs and move closer to us... but my area has become completely unaffordable as Toronto money is suddenly blowing up the market out here with bidding wars and no-conditions offers and the like, stuff we never saw before.

So yeah in that context I can't even imagine being working class and trying to make a go of it. It was bad before, but it is only getting worse. Rents are absolutely mental even in outlying areas that should be cheap.

And most importantly given that these outlying areas around Toronto (Hamilton, Oshawa, London, Cambridge, Woodstock etc.) are often where the few remaining manufacturing sector jobs are, what happens to the manufacturing sector when their employees can no longer afford housing near the factory?

Re: Tiny Homes Won’t Fix the Housing Crisis

#12

Post by chefkoch »

greggman3 wrote: post #5

I don't have a clue what any solution looks like or even what problem is trying to be solved. Growing up in the USA home "ownership" is always touted as an investment but for example in Japan, it's often more like buying a car. The moment you buy it it's a used house and the price goes down just like a car would. The point being home ownership is viewed differently. Also, the recent episode of the Flash Forward podca…

> They complained that 60% of people on minimum wage can't afford a 2 bedroom apartment in the USA but coming from Tokyo my first thought was "why is the standard a 2 bedroom apartment?"

Perhabs to have a second bedroom for kids?

Re: Tiny Homes Won’t Fix the Housing Crisis

#13

Post by anonfornoreason »

gwbas1c wrote: post #3
blakesterz wrote: post #2

I guess I never realized that tiny homes were supposed to fix the housing crisis? I'm not sure this article really said that they were either. Anyways, I think this is the main idea of the article: "The imagined owners of tiny homes, in other words, are likely childless and able-bodied, and they likely have at least ten grand to spare (plus, perhaps, the time or resources to build a home) and minimal familial respons…

I always thought that tiny homes was a rejection of materialism, or a way to live cheaply? Or basically a fancy alternative to a trailer park?

I know two people I’d consider sorta materialistic (camera and tech gadget budget in the 10,000 a year territory), that are just ok living in a small space as long as it is the cheapest option. They don’t talk about the footprint of tiny home living, they talk about the cost savings.

Re: Tiny Homes Won’t Fix the Housing Crisis

#14

Post by ghaff »

leoedin wrote: post #9

The idea that tiny homes are the solution to the housing crisis ignores the fact that the housing crisis is really a land-in-desirable-places crisis, and a result of a natural pyramid scheme which has emerged due to population growth and increasing popularity of cities (amplified by low interest rates). Tiny houses don't fix that problem.

One of the things with both tiny houses and micro-apartments--leaving aside precise definitions--is that by the time you account for some minimal set of amenities such as bathroom, a kitchenette even, corridors/stairwell in the case of apartments, etc. cutting space to the bone doesn't really save you all that much in absolute terms while forcing a lot of compromises.

Re: Tiny Homes Won’t Fix the Housing Crisis

#15

Post by ghaff »

chefkoch wrote: post #12
greggman3 wrote: post #5

I don't have a clue what any solution looks like or even what problem is trying to be solved. Growing up in the USA home "ownership" is always touted as an investment but for example in Japan, it's often more like buying a car. The moment you buy it it's a used house and the price goes down just like a car would. The point being home ownership is viewed differently. Also, the recent episode of the Flash Forward podca…

> They complained that 60% of people on minimum wage can't afford a 2 bedroom apartment in the USA but coming from Tokyo my first thought was "why is the standard a 2 bedroom apartment?" Perhabs to have a second bedroom for kids?

Even leaving aside kids, even decades ago when I rented, I really liked having a separate office. Also guest bedroom, hobby room, etc. Even as a single person I appreciated having a two bedroom apartment.

Re: Tiny Homes Won’t Fix the Housing Crisis

#16

Post by Pet_Ant »

We need to start building tiny soviet style apartments: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQgaCwrQQy8

Add to that some "coffin" motels. Once people have a place to sleep near a place they can work they can start moving upwards.

My mom grew up in one, and I stayed with my grandma in one every time I visited. Sure, I slept on the kitchen floor, but it's not that bad.

Re: Tiny Homes Won’t Fix the Housing Crisis

#17

Post by corey_moncure »

alex_anglin wrote: post #8
greggman3 wrote: post #5

I don't have a clue what any solution looks like or even what problem is trying to be solved. Growing up in the USA home "ownership" is always touted as an investment but for example in Japan, it's often more like buying a car. The moment you buy it it's a used house and the price goes down just like a car would. The point being home ownership is viewed differently. Also, the recent episode of the Flash Forward podca…

One important difference to note in your Japan comparison is that Japan is experiencing population decline, which would explain weak demand and decreasing prices. Home ownership as an investment in North America has been driven by demand exceeding supply, among other factors, which make a difference from an investment perspective.

This is incorrect. Many of the factors that make the Japan real estate market what it is are codified into law. Furthermore the qualities attested to by the grandparent post are invariant with the current demographic trends, and have existed for a very long time. Long story short, Japan real estate is weird and unique, not a good subject for off the cuff generalizations.

Re: Tiny Homes Won’t Fix the Housing Crisis

#18

Post by Pet_Ant »

anovikov wrote: post #7

There is no housing crisis. U.S. has more than plenty of good quality, large, and more than affordable houses (many of them are probably beyond repair but this is a consequence of their abundance and lack of demand). Housing crisis is only about the very few already overpopulated spots being hyper-attractive for people to move in because that's where opportunities are. There is no way to "fix" this because even if ho…

> Housing crisis is only about the very few already overpopulated spots being hyper-attractive for people to move in because that's where opportunities are.

Why not build hyper-dense housing? If you have functional public spaces you don't need as much private space. We used to have boarding houses etc. I don't need my own bathroom, I need a bathroom. I rarely use my kitchen, I just need access to one.

Re: Tiny Homes Won’t Fix the Housing Crisis

#19

Post by refurb »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #11

To put it in context, this is a Canadian magazine, and here in Canada the housing market is just absolutely insanely irrational. There has been no downwards housing price "correction" since the early 90s. The 2008 bubble-pop never happened here. Interest rates remain at record lows and the COVID-19 crisis seems to have led to massive _increase_ in housing prices rather than a decrease. It's a huge distorted market wi…

This is a problem that will solve itself. Sure, it will be a painful few decades, but we've already seen that shift. Toronto used to be the cluster of high prices homes, now it's spread all the way down to Hamilton. That process will continue - people will purchase homes in lower cost areas and businesses won't have much choice but to hire closer to those locations as well.

That's of course ignoring the potential for some major housing correction in Canada which resets the clock somewhat. It's not like it hasn't before. I had family buy a home in a Toronto suburb in the 1980's. They sold at the peak in 1990 and the housing market crashed hard. Prices didn't recover until the mid-2000's.

Re: Tiny Homes Won’t Fix the Housing Crisis

#20

Post by cammikebrown »

mettamage wrote: post #10
greggman3 wrote: post #5

I don't have a clue what any solution looks like or even what problem is trying to be solved. Growing up in the USA home "ownership" is always touted as an investment but for example in Japan, it's often more like buying a car. The moment you buy it it's a used house and the price goes down just like a car would. The point being home ownership is viewed differently. Also, the recent episode of the Flash Forward podca…

Wait, so does that mean it's relatively cheap to rent or buy in Japan? I know Japan is not a cheap country, but I was wondering relative to other Western countries. I might want to research if I'd want to live in Japan for a couple of years then, and simply become a remote worker.

Although Tokyo ranks among the most expensive real estate markets, I’d argue it’s comparable to many mid-size American cities, and deals can often be found on the cheap side, whereas the US has seen the floor on rental prices skyrocket in the last decade. Places tend to be much smaller in Tokyo, but you can still find a studio for well under $1,000/month, which is not really possible where I live (Portland, OR). A studio in Shinjuku, one of the most central and popular wards, can be had for ~$1,000/month.

https://blog.gaijinpot.com/how-much-is-the-average-rent-in-t...

Post reply on HN