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Diego Maradona has died

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Re: Diego Maradona has died

#311

Post by omaranto »

wesleywt wrote: post #286
omaranto wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The heat? I live in Mexico City, it's basically never hot here. That game was on June 22, and according to WolframAlpha that day had a high of 15C. I don't know if that data is accurate, but I can tell you a high of 15C in June is plausible. Even if Wolfram's data is sketchy, I'd bet the high temperature on that day was somewhere between 15C and 25C.

Surely you have a day or two where it gets hot. Maybe the TV commentator said it was a hot day.

> Surely you have a day or two where it gets hot.

That depends on what you mean by hot: the highest temperature ever recorded in Mexico City is 38C, so my friends from northern Mexico and from, say, Arizona would say that no, Mexico City does not have even a day or two when it gets hot. (Of course, 38C is probably much too hot for comfort if you are playing football.)

But back to June 22, 1986.

I'm pretty sure the Mexican national weather service knows exactly how hot it was on June 22, 1986 in Mexico City, but unfortunately their website doesn't seem to have day-by-day data available for download (at least not that far back). I did find a table of monthly average high temperatures [1], and for June 1986 in Mexico City (see "Distrito Federal" in the table) the average high temperature was 23.6C. The Weather Underground says that on June 22, 1986 the highest temperature was 75F [2], which is 23.9C. (Why doesn't the Weather Underground default to Celsius for visitors from Mexico?)

So it looks like I would have won my (very conservative) bet that the temperature was somewhere between 15C and 25C that day.

> Maybe the TV commentator said it was a hot day.

This is definitely possible!

1. The commentator could have assumed that because the game was in Mexico it would be hot! This happens all the time. I have explained to dozens of people that Mexico City doesn't really get hot, most are surprised. Of course, when I remind them Mexico City is at an altitude of 2.2km they usually believe me about the lack of heat.

2. The commentator could have known it was 25C and still thought that was hot for a football match.

[1] https://smn.conagua.gob.mx/tools/DATA/Climatolog%C3%ADa/Pron...

[2] https://www.wunderground.com/history/daily/mx/mexico-city/MM...

Re: Diego Maradona has died

#312

Post by pelasaco »

olavgg wrote: post #305
pelasaco wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pele won 3 world cups. He won 2 world titles with Santos. Santos used to travel around the world like the globetrotters because of him. He scored more than 1000 goals.

But Pele played at a time where football was not as polished as today. That also includes Maradona. Messi, Ronaldo are much much better football players than them both. But of course with the strong competition today it is a lot harder to accomplish what Pele and Maradona did. Football is a team game, and that is a lot more true today than three, four decades ago.

you are comparing apples with oranges. You cannot compare football from the 50s,70s with football from today, simply because the whole society changed. If football wasn't as polished as today, to out stand in this environment is even harder. Every injury could mean the end of your career. Pele was raised poor, served the army, played professionally from 1950 - 1977(!!)

Messi in another hand is "professional" since he was 6. He moved to Barcelona at age of 10 to go through an hormonal treatment and since then he is exposed to professional football. Such chance was impossible back in the 50s for a black kid in Brazil or anyone else actually.

Re: Diego Maradona has died

#313

Post by fzil »

thazework wrote: post #53
soneca wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably for the better, as we could all focus on the other goal that he scored that match.

That goal wouldn't have happened. He would have been suspended after VAR review.

80s football was really, I mean really rough. Just look at some of the tackles in the same match. It's amazing how far the sport has come.

Re: Diego Maradona has died

#314

Post by fzil »

olavgg wrote: post #305
pelasaco wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pele won 3 world cups. He won 2 world titles with Santos. Santos used to travel around the world like the globetrotters because of him. He scored more than 1000 goals.

But Pele played at a time where football was not as polished as today. That also includes Maradona. Messi, Ronaldo are much much better football players than them both. But of course with the strong competition today it is a lot harder to accomplish what Pele and Maradona did. Football is a team game, and that is a lot more true today than three, four decades ago.

> But Pele played at a time where football was not as polished as today

Football wouldn't be as polished today had it not been for players like Pele and Maradona. Pele is GOAT and nobody comes even close.

Re: Diego Maradona has died

#315

Post by Daishiman »

Cyph0n wrote: post #283
Daishiman wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh I'm not saying that it's immune at all, but the outrage against Trump is at the very least visible and palpable and those who excuse them are visibly ashamed of the support.

Half of the country is “visibly ashamed”? Come on, man.

Well obviously today's not gonna be the day.

But for those of us who did _not_ watch him in the 80s, those of us who didn't necessarily get a kick of him sticking it up the Brits, those of us who grew up in the 90s and 00s and watched him go from one drug-addled binge to the next and then seeing him grift on his career as a "manager"...

Well, there wasn't much glory for that. I understand the astounding emotional effect for those who saw him in the past, but for a lot of us watching from a different point in time there wasn't much that was positive.

Re: Diego Maradona has died

#316

Post by pyman »

msla wrote: post #302
pyman wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Argentina did not loose the war, that's what Brits don't understand, a facist dictator lost the war. You see, in 1982 my family and the entire country was at war with an Argentinean dictator, when suddenly Margaret Tatcher, an unpopular Prime Minister at that time, saw the opportunity and instead of de-escalating the tension between UK and the dictator, she decided to go to war with him. What the media didn't tell th…

> The fact that Maradona scored an "illegal" goal against the Brits was seen as a revenge for loosing a war that no one wanted to fight, except for Tatcher. I'm pretty sure Leopoldo Galtieri wanted the war more than Thatcher did; he started it, after all. Also, negotiating with dictators doesn't always end well. Look at what happened in 1939.

> I'm pretty sure Leopoldo Galtieri wanted the war

100%. The ERP (People's Revolutionary Army) and Montoneros were fighting in the streets of Buenos Aires, so Galtieri and the Military Junta needed a distraction. A big one.

> he started it, after all

This is probably a myth created by the media. A bunch of people, probably fisherman or metallurgic workers raised a flag, and hell broke loose. Things escalated very quickly after that. All we know is that a small group of people raised a flag in one of the island and then Galtieri was at war with the UK, US and NATO. The Military junta killing Argentine people, and going to war with a powerful country, a country that defeated the German Empire. It's crazy! Was the war inevitable? I don't know. Did England over reacted? Who knows. All I know is that Galtieri was a sociopath, and that he died while incarcerated in a Correctional Facility.

> negotiating with dictators doesn't always end well.

This is true, ex: Saddam Hussein, Hitler, etc. But you know what, this was a conflict that could have been resolved by Lady Di in probably 1 day. People in Argentine loved her. She was seen as the Evita of Europe. On the other hand, people in Argentina didn't like Galtieri, and people in England didn't like Tatcher. Unfortunately, no one tried to diffuse the situation in any way. This is sad. Argentina and England were allies from 1810 to 1939, until WWII started and Perón took over https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentina_during_World_War_II The fact that during WWII 4,000 Argentines served with British armed services shows how many British descendants were living in Buenos Aires in the 1900s.

Re: Diego Maradona has died

#317

Post by pyman »

wankeler wrote: post #304
pyman wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Argentina did not loose the war, that's what Brits don't understand, a facist dictator lost the war. You see, in 1982 my family and the entire country was at war with an Argentinean dictator, when suddenly Margaret Tatcher, an unpopular Prime Minister at that time, saw the opportunity and instead of de-escalating the tension between UK and the dictator, she decided to go to war with him. What the media didn't tell th…

It was a bit late to de-escalate after the islands had been invaded. Do you really think Galtieri would have gone for any kind of political settlement that would have seen troops withdrawn or islands returned? The whole thing was his Hail Mary exercise to stay in power. I seem to recall US SoS Haig tried pretty hard to fix things. The big mistakes by the Brits were made beforehand by not taking seriously the noises b…

> It was a bit late to de-escalate after the islands had been invaded.

According to my family, a bunch of people, probably fisherman or metallurgic workers, raised a flag in one of the island (we don't know why) and then Galtieri sent some troops to protect these people. When the fascists arrived to the islands, they were hostile to the residents. And then hell broke loose, and Galtieri was at war with the UK, US and NATO. A complete lunatic. Once the war started, the propaganda machinery took over. People fighting the dictator didn't want this war, but knew very well it would weaken the Military junta.

> Do you really think Galtieri would have gone for any kind of political settlement

No. The ERP (People's Revolutionary Army) and Montoneros were fighting against Galtieri, in the streets of Buenos Aires, so the Military Junta needed a distraction. However, my mom always said that the only person who could stop that war was Lady Di. She was very popular in Argentina, people used to compare her with Evita. Maybe my mom was wrong, she was a bit of dreamer after all.

> The big mistakes by the Brits were made beforehand by not taking seriously the noises being made by the junta

True. Galtieri never thought England would go to war. I'm not sure why, probably because he had bad intel, or was a complete sociopath.

> It’s very sad that what was once a strong relationship between the two nations went downhill with Peron

Yes, it's sad. After Peron everything went downhill. My mom is an English teacher, and was born in Argentina. She loves the English culture and people (Ladi Di, Churchill, etc), and the war did not change any of that, but deep inside I think she feels betrayed by England (by Tatcher, the media, and even the Queen). But she knows very well what happened and why, and finds comfort in thinking that the war helped restore democracy in her country. She was a proud Montonera https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montoneras

All the best!

Re: Diego Maradona has died

#318

Post by msapaydin »

slms wrote: post #310
msapaydin wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree with you. I recommend you watch Maradona documentary by Kapadia to better understand his career.

What's your point? The documentary doesn't really touch on basically any of the points that this comment refers to as it ends around 1990. I liked the documentary though, because I was also born in the 90s so I mostly saw the ugly part of Diego.

I guess my point is that the parent comments referred to Maradona rather than to Diego. The documentary made me realize that it is actually not him but all those Napoli fans that grasped him that caused his demise. If he were able to leave Napoli for a calmer retirement perhaps he would not become what he eventually became. It was the greed of Ferraino (Napoli FC President) which kept him in Napoli and caused him to become infamous, according to the documentary.

Re: Diego Maradona has died

#319

Post by gus_massa »

pyman wrote: post #317
wankeler wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was a bit late to de-escalate after the islands had been invaded. Do you really think Galtieri would have gone for any kind of political settlement that would have seen troops withdrawn or islands returned? The whole thing was his Hail Mary exercise to stay in power. I seem to recall US SoS Haig tried pretty hard to fix things. The big mistakes by the Brits were made beforehand by not taking seriously the noises b…

> It was a bit late to de-escalate after the islands had been invaded. According to my family, a bunch of people, probably fisherman or metallurgic workers, raised a flag in one of the island (we don't know why) and then Galtieri sent some troops to protect these people. When the fascists arrived to the islands, they were hostile to the residents. And then hell broke loose, and Galtieri was at war with the UK, US and…

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Revolutionary_Army_...

> Although the ERP continued for a while under the leadership of Enrique Gorriarán Merlo, by late 1977 the guerrilla threat had been eradicted or gone underground.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montoneros

> The Montoneros were effectively finished off by 1977, although their "Special Forces" did fight on until 1981. The Montoneros tried to disrupt the World Cup Football Tournament being hosted in Argentina in 1978 by launching a number of bomb attacks. In late 1979, the Montoneros launched a "strategic counteroffensive" in Argentina, and the security forces killed more than one hundred of the exiled Montoneros, who had been sent back to Argentina after receiving special forces training in camps in the Middle East.

Re: Diego Maradona has died

#320

Post by mrleinad »

phreack wrote: post #291
mrleinad wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was flawed, but far from being a piece of shit. I strongly suggest you put aside your prejudices about him and try to understand both his lights and shadows. He was always on the side of the downtrodden and poor people everywhere. He never abused minors, that one was Pelé. And he always cared about his colleagues, you won't find anyone in football that says or has said otherwise.

There is photographic evidence of him partying naked with minors, corroborated by witnesses.

Witnesses can be bought. Pictures can't be fully trusted (unless you think you can see someone's age floating above their head). Give me judicial processes and hard evidence if there's any.
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