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A Worsening Culture War

taibbi.substack.com

211–220 of 284 posts

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#211
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No offense, but neither the 2 major parties in the US are left/workers rights. I don't see any candidate running on the "improve quality of life for wage earners" platform. for example Joe "nothing with fundamentally change" Biden...and well the last 4 years.

That's what people missed about Trump's supporters in 2016. People genuinely believed he was going to work for the common man. He talked about workers rights (in a xenophobic sort of way, but still) he talked about increasing pay for blue collar workers, and about restoring the lost legacy to places that have been abandoned by globalization. That never got talked about by Trump detractors. Union working class Joe-Sch…

Well of course. A man who lives in a literal gold covered Condo, with a history of not paying his subcontractors, vendors and who hired undocumented workers, was certainly going to stick up for the working man.

He said the needed lines, gave them a villain in immigrants (stealing yur jerbs) and then did nothing of the sort for WORKERS. He certainly did go all in on cracking down on immigration, of non-white people, as that matched the narratives of Steve Bannon and Stephen Miller.

Meanwhile, Oligarchs here are richer than ever, and workers are holding on for dear life. And 72 million plus, voted to keep him in office.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? The Cold War is over.

Exactly; when there was a clash of civilizations between a free west and a repressive soviet union; it made sense that Russia was the enemy. Now it is just a conflict between different European powers with varying levels of dysfunctional democracy and corrupt elites. So what is the basis for hating the Russians now; racism?

Putin and his policy of destabilization of the West, from financing Brexit supporters, to poisoning his political opponents.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#213
post #59

"That's all the media and the politicians are ever talking about, the things that separate us, things that make us different from one another. That's the way the ruling class operates in any society. They try to divide the rest of the people. They keep the lower and the middle classes fighting with each other so that they the rich, can run off with all the fucking money. Fairly simple thing. Happens to work. You know…

Virtually everything about that Carlin quote is completely wrong. There is no business in the world outside of news media (which includes the author) that makes or preserves money from the middle class fighting with the lower class. They'd rather the power classes get over their differences so they can make money off them. The top 1% in US pay more taxes in taxes than the bottom 90%. Before you ask, I do think that t…

What is their percentage of asset ownership worldwide?

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#214

I agree with the central thesis -- we should be shaking hands with our neighbors and looking to take back power and wealth from the rich. But how do you get neighbors to shake hands when one believes that gay marriage is truly evil and another is gay? Both sides in America constantly fight bitterly over identity politics and it seems like many of those identities are irreconcilable with one another. I'm non binary an…

The key point is that identities don’t have to be reconciled. There’s no reason a hunter and a vegan can’t work together on common problems, even though they don’t like or particularly respect each other’s lifestyles. On many hit button issues, unfortunately including nonbinary people, we’ve just lost this common understanding that working with someone neither constitutes an endorsement of how they live nor requires…

I consider 'reconciled' to include 'willing to work with'. The behavior I'm calling out are, for example, the people who get abusive immediately when faced with an out group member.

I can work with people whose personal views I consider morally bankrupt. If they start threatening others because of who those others are, that's a problem. And it's an uncomfortably common problem.

People have asked about my politics, and I'll often say simply, "I'm a democratic socialist." and I've had people tell me I'm "a cursed person who has drunk from the trough of the demons" and that I'm "here to destroy freedom and the constitution."

Those aren't exaggerations, those are real quotes in response to a short introduction. I'd be thrilled to get to the point where I could work alongside those types of people.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you definitely don't live in Leipzig. I can tell you that not everywhere in Germany is like that. In some cities, specially in the East, depending of the soccer team, profession or political views, you are simply not allowed to frequent some places.

I'm American and Hispanic and been to leipzig and the surrounding areas quite often since my best friend lives there. I've partied and bbq'd in the various Dorfs surrounding as well and have never remotely encountered such a thing.

I'm German and been to US many times. Some of my best friends lives there. I've partied and bbq'd in the various cities there and have never remotely encountered such thing like the one cited in the linked article. Do they exist? Definitely. What is your point?

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>leaned heavily towards socialism and economic justice... Not to be too on the nose, but another equally valid phrase here is “leaned heavily towards being a christian minister”, which he was. The religious motivations of the civil rights movement are ones we seem blind to, and the only reason i can think of for it is that when i, an american, hear “christian”, i have been taught think “republican suburban or rural w…

There were just as many religious motivations behind slavery and segregation as there was for it - actually more, in reality. In truth, evangelical Christianity has been one of the primary tools used to advance and justify segregation and slavery throughout western history, with some going so far as to equate rejection of slavery as no different than rejecting Christ. The predominant denomination of the south, Southe…

> evangelical Christianity has been one of the primary tools used to advance and justify segregation and slavery throughout western history

This is right if you say "America" instead of "the west". And then you're talking about a timescale of maybe 200 years, tops.

But when you say "the west" you're talking about a longer history of Christianity in Europe. You're talking about the Catholic Church, the Protestant Reformation, all that.

And on long historical timescales, Christianity's record is quite a bit more complicated than that. You can certainly associate it with various sins -- it suppressed the pagans, it launched the crusades, in Spain it justified conquest in the New World, and (though it was its own team) it often sided with royalty and aristocracy. And yet it was not an essentially "pro-slavery" religion. That would be to project relatively recent American evangelicalism backwards onto the rest of Christianity in a totally ahistorical way.

> There was notable involvement in the abolitionist movement among northern Protestants, and civil rights activism among catholics, Jews, and northern Protestants - but acting as though that is in any way representative of American religion is missing 99% of the history.

There used to be a phrase, "mainline Protestant", used to distinguish "normal" Protestants from evangelicals. They're dying now, but those churches used to have huge membership. The kind of Christianity that was "centered" in the past in America (at least in the North) was //not at all// the southern Evangelical variety that so often claims the word "Christian" these days. You're missing the amount of change that has occurred. The Evangelicals were "weird".

Your discussion of "Catholics and Jews" in the context of "abolitionism" is also confused. Catholics and Jews were not //totally absent// from America at that time, but it really wasn't until later that they came over in large numbers. Like, Irish were just arriving around the time of the Civil War (and hadn't even won respect for themselves yet, let alone taking up the political cause of others), and Jews started to really show up later around the turn of the century. You're ignoring the timeline of immigration.

Finally -- your whole dichotomy of "American religion" vs... atheism(?) is confused. In the past, atheism was taboo -- "everyone" was religious to some extent -- and //even so// things like the Civil War happened. Why? Because it was religion that //animated// those movements, particularly within the emerging "white" ethnic group (whose material interests they did not necessarily serve in an obvious way).

Mostly, American history has not been "religious people vs nonreligious people". It's been different kinds of religious people fighting over the contents of their religions. Mostly, the battle lines have been drawn right //through// Christianity in America.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#218
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, the “elites” support better wage laws and worker protections. It’s the small business owners I know that rabidly vote against better protections for wage earners as it would lower their profits, and might affect their lifestyle.

Small businesses do not operate in a bubble. They have to compete with large businesses. And unlike the millionares who sit atop the ladder of large businesses, most small business owners have their livelihood tied in with their business. Small businesses suffer much more from a minimum wage increase, so of course their owners are against it. Meanwhile, large business owners benefit from a minimum wage increase thank…

[deleted]

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#219
This article seems to imply that the wealthy don't have any stake in the culture war, and stand to benefit most by maintaining the status quo. But that seems to ignore the fact that two of the issues at the heart of the culture war are taxation and government regulations - and one side's stance on these issues is far more beneficial to the wealthy than the other's.

One of the few major pieces of legislation that Republicans actually passed while in power over the past four years were tax reforms which were very beneficial to the wealthy. And the Trump administration changed several of the EPA's environmental policies to be more business friendly (and less friendly to the environment).

Democrats, on the other hand, are in broadly favor of increasing taxes on the wealthy. Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren in particular had some policy proposals that would have taxed the wealthy quite significantly. Democrats in recent history also passed the Dodd-Frank act, which imposed a number of regulations on the finance industry (and was partially repealed by Republicans in 2018).

These issues are front and center in the culture war. Remember Joe the Plumber and "Drill baby, drill" in 2008? Or Trump's vows to save the coal industry in 2016? And how many times did Pence bring up the subject of fracking in the 2020 vice presidential debate?

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#220

Social media has made it wildly easy and incredibly cheap to propagate any misinformation. Head over 4chan and you'll see a factory line of ideas being thrown at the wall to see what sticks - which is then further spread across social media. If you were a foreign power and wanted to sow discord in a rival country, you had to buy off dozens of journalists and funnel money to media houses and hope that they'd at least…

Pray tell - what misinformation do you find on 4chan that is so worth propagating to the rest of the internet?

The conspiracy theory growth cycle is pretty clear after all these years: something originates on 4chan, is picked up by some independent blog that editoralizes and sanitizes it. The blog post is then spread through Facebook and Twitter before it lands back on 4chan, but now legitimized by coverage on more "mainstream" web (by 4chan's standards anyway).

The Flat Earth conspiracy was easily the best example of this

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