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A Worsening Culture War

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Re: A Worsening Culture War

#201

Post by sonotathrowaway »

hprotagonist wrote: post #173
sonotathrowaway wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were just as many religious motivations behind slavery and segregation as there was for it - actually more, in reality. In truth, evangelical Christianity has been one of the primary tools used to advance and justify segregation and slavery throughout western history, with some going so far as to equate rejection of slavery as no different than rejecting Christ. The predominant denomination of the south, Southe…

I certainly agree that white evangelical christianity in its modern (post-1619) incarnation is so completely entangled with american slavery that they’re indistinguishable. I don’t agree at all that that statement or population is somehow emblematic of “the real religion”, because the unspoken priors there are precisely the sort of white- and christian- centric circular definitions that, for example, white american e…

I don’t want to make any claims as to ‘real religion’, just that religions reflect the values of the communities that hold them.

As to American evangelicals I don’t think we have a lot of disagreement, but I remembered an an excerpt from “Letters from a Birmingham Jail” that I thought was very apt:

I have traveled the length and breadth of Alabama, Mississippi and all the other southern states. On sweltering summer days and crisp autumn mornings I have looked at the South's beautiful churches with their lofty spires pointing heavenward. I have beheld the impressive outlines of her massive religious-education buildings. Over and over I have found myself asking: "What kind of people worship here? Who is their God? Where were their voices when the lips of Governor Barnett dripped with words of interposition and nullification? Where were they when Governor Wallace gave a clarion call for defiance and hatred? Where were their voices of support when bruised and weary Negro men and women decided to rise from the dark dungeons of complacency to the bright hills of creative protest?"

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#202

Post by Aunche »

chongli wrote: post #127
Aunche wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Virtually everything about that Carlin quote is completely wrong. There is no business in the world outside of news media (which includes the author) that makes or preserves money from the middle class fighting with the lower class. They'd rather the power classes get over their differences so they can make money off them. The top 1% in US pay more taxes in taxes than the bottom 90%. Before you ask, I do think that t…

YouTube, Twitter, Facebook. All 3 make gigabucks from the culture war. Apple, on the other hand, does not wade into the culture war. What they do instead is make money off people's status anxiety by selling luxury products to people on food stamps.

I'm sure YouTube and Facebook would prefer cat memes and influencers more than flame wars and pundits. The former do not get demonetized and lead to innocent content being demonetized accidentally. The addictive nature of Facebook and Youtube are partially to blame, but even if that ended, that would only slow down the culture war, which suggests that the root cause is elsewhere. They're making lemonade out of lemons, which may incentivize more lemons, but it's not the source.

I agree with you about Twitter as their stock had been stagnant until Trump's election and people started equating tweets as news.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#203

Post by wasdfff »

The working class is the largest voting block their is. How do you keep them reliably voting against their own economic interests and maintain your position at the top of the economic ladder? Turn one half against the other and divide and conquer. It’s pretty easy to push people into fearing some ‘other’ and tap into that inherent tribalism we have in our primal instincts.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#204

Post by IOT_Apprentice »

tpm wrote: post #96
ziggy556 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's your stance then evidently you don't understand why the other "side" even exists.

It exists mostly because of massive propaganda financed by very wealthy people for whom it is essential to indoctrinate masses to be even more wealthy and powerful.

Not clear why you are being downvoted. Oligarch Rebekah Mercer has funded/sponsored Breitbart, Steve Bannon, Donald Trump, Parler and more. When their sock puppets get out of line--they lose their funding. See Steve Bannon, who now is in the pocket of a rogue Chinese Billionaire. There are many more like her and her father.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#205

Post by technics256 »

pelasaco wrote: post #76
Roritharr wrote: post #9

The craziest part of this american culture war, to me, is that it seems to spill over to the rest of the world. My sister and I, living in Germany, have a very loving relationship, but we absolutely disagree on almost everything political and basically are stuck in our seperate bubbles. This gave us an interesting observation: 5 years ago it took us about two to three months, to have a fight over something that start…

Well, you definitely don't live in Leipzig. I can tell you that not everywhere in Germany is like that. In some cities, specially in the East, depending of the soccer team, profession or political views, you are simply not allowed to frequent some places.

I'm American and Hispanic and been to leipzig and the surrounding areas quite often since my best friend lives there. I've partied and bbq'd in the various Dorfs surrounding as well and have never remotely encountered such a thing.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#206

Post by laverya »

tzs wrote: post #176
lotsofpulp wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The viewpoint that both groups are just as bad or just as good for wage earners is a problem. It’s easily verifiable that Democratic states have better laws for wage earners, and have pushed for policies that benefit wage earners. They’re nowhere near perfect, but there’s no reason to pretend Dems and Repubs are the same.

I have no idea if this actually means anything, but I did a couple amusing calculations. If the number of Electoral College votes each state got were proportional to that state's cumulative per capita COVID infection rates, the result would have been 329 Trump, 209 Biden. However, if we go by cumulative per capita COVID deaths, then the result would have been 228 Trump, 310 Biden. Why the big swing? I think it is bec…

> By the time it got big in rural areas, we'd gotten a lot better at dealing with it.

Or by the time it hit rural areas, we'd also gotten better at testing for it. Perhaps the IFR is the same across both demographics, but better testing means a higher proportion of cases were detected later in the pandemic.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#207

Post by ryandrake »

da_big_ghey wrote: post #144
lotsofpulp wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The viewpoint that both groups are just as bad or just as good for wage earners is a problem. It’s easily verifiable that Democratic states have better laws for wage earners, and have pushed for policies that benefit wage earners. They’re nowhere near perfect, but there’s no reason to pretend Dems and Repubs are the same.

Even if people agree with you on that, people care about more things than benefiting wage earners. Gun rights are a big deal for a large number of people. Abortion is a big issue for many people, as is immigration policy. Saying that, "One side is better on the things I value!" is startlingly blind to the fact that a whole lot of people don't value what you do, or value things in the same order. I could just as easil…

There are a lot of single issue voters out there who will happily vote for someone who promises to screw them over financially as long as they are for their pet issue.

More recently, we are seeing the rise of the Zero Issue Voters who don’t care about any particular issue at all. It’s purely a team sport. They love their team, love their candidates and they just want to “own the other side”.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#208

Post by laverya »

Daishiman wrote: post #191
chrisjarvis wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

both sides push for higher immigration and a globalized market, which have more effect on wage-earners in the US than any policy in "Democratic states". Imo you are missing the forest thru the trees, at scale they really are the same.

The evidence is that immigrants generate positive net tax benefits. The amount of immigrants who are founders of successful business would reflect that the impact is net positive. AFAIK the idea of immigrants impact being a net negative isn't supported by the studies I have read. I understand this isn't necessarily in line with the rhetoric du jour.

> The evidence is that immigrants generate positive net tax benefits.

Immigrants as a whole being a net positive might be clear, but the demographics most commonly under debate are things like "refugees" or "illegal immigrants" or "people seeking asylum at the US-Mexico border". Now, it's possible that those groups are still a (financial) net positive, but I'd be a lot less confident in that than "doctors" or "people with a degree".

This also doesn't really address the issue of "what impact does immigration have on US wage earners". An immigrant doctor or programmer might be clearly beneficial financially and to the country as a whole, but the doctors and programmers they're competing with might not be quite so happy. And while those demographics can "take it" so to speak, unskilled laborers facing the same competition are in a bit tougher of a spot.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#209

Post by pashamur »

syshum wrote: post #182
rmrk wrote: post #101

was making sense until the bs "both sides" conclusion: "We have two donor-fattened parties that across decades of incompetence have each run out of convincing pitches for how to improve the lives of ordinary people." I find the ideas of fixing healthcare, reinvesting in our economy and infrastructure, and shoring up our social programs highly convincing. And I'm pretty sure the polls show those ideas resonate across…

>>I find the ideas of fixing healthcare, reinvesting in our economy and infrastructure, and shoring up our social programs highly convincing. And I'm pretty sure the polls show those ideas resonate across the political spectrum. And I only hear those ideas coming from one party. I suspect that is because you view the "solutions" from one party as the sole legitimate "solutions" to those problems. I.e to you the solut…

Well, the other party had four years in power (and previously many years as the opposition) to propose a viable alternative plan; however, that proposal is nowhere to be found.

There were some small things like price transparency and attempts at regulating drug pricing, but nothing on the scale of a large-enough transformation that is necessary.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#210

Post by pjc50 »

motogpjimbo wrote: post #192
ck425 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I've noticed is the whole sale importation of the BLM movement to the UK. I'm not overly aware of the issue facing ethnic minorities in the UK (I live in Scotland where it's almost entirely white with some small asian communities, which isn't to say there isn't racism just few people to discuss it with personally) but from reading around racism in the UK is very different to the US. Despite this we've adopt…

It has been profoundly odd watching UK BLM protesters (almost all of them white and middle class, of course) chanting "hands up, don't shoot"-type slogans recently. British police officers don't routinely carry guns and therefore couldn't possibly shoot you even if they wanted to. In fact, there is an almost zero probability of anyone in the UK getting shot by the police unless they happen to be committing an act of…

Incidents are rare .. but on the other hand, police shootings have sparked riots: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadwater_Farm_riot / https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Mark_Duggan

And of course https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Jean_Charles_de_Me...

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