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Why AWS loves Rust, and how we’d like to help

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Re: Why AWS loves Rust, and how we’d like to help

#291

Post by nothowthisworks »

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #182
renewiltord wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, legitimate curiosity is too low a threshold for me. If you want to chat further about this POV, happy to discuss over email (in profile). Would rather not pollute this thread.

If discussions on a forum are pollution to you, then I don't know what to say. People discuss things. Communication is a part of learning. Sorry that's beneath you? Sorry I didn't discuss things the way you wanted? I mean, not really, but you have leverage on the forum, and you're making it a really undesirable place to reply in.

Mate, you are the absolute worst type of person to try to have a constructive conversation with. You have turned nearly every reply into a combat. Each one a chance for you to claim you were slighted by big bad bullies.

And rather than taking the explicit feedback you've gotten, instead you've imagined some sort of conspiracy against you.

>> I just have too much experience in the industry to throw away my time and play with toys.

Seriously, get out of here trying to gaslight everyone by acting like you came into this thread with a genuine sense of curiosity. I hope you seek out an external perspective on how you appear in this thread.

Re: Why AWS loves Rust, and how we’d like to help

#293

Post by steveklabnik »

secondcoming wrote: post #290
steveklabnik wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google employees have actively gotten involved in collaborating within the Rust project rather than bypassing it. Of course, anything can change at any time, but this absolutist statement doesn't correlate with experiences so far. (Also, these organizations are huge! The web standards folks and the Fuchsia folks are, as far as I know, basically disjoint, so even talking about companies like Google as a monolithic ent…

In their own spare time, or as part of their paid work at Google?

I am not 100% sure, but given that the features were directly relevant to their work, I would hope that they were given time to do it on the job.

Re: Why AWS loves Rust, and how we’d like to help

#294

Post by kolektiv »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #254
mjasay wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a good call out, and one that we're actively engaged with. Matthew has done fantastic work on Rusoto and we'd like to be helpful there. Stay tuned.

I'd love to see this as well. From a compiler perspective, Rusoto takes a long time to compile. Some of that is just the sheer volume of code, but also, it wouldn't surprise me if it's hitting bottlenecks in the compiler (e.g. a recently fixed issue in the performance of #[derive(...)] on a huge number of structs). Getting appropriate bits of Rusoto put into the compiler's performance testsuite could help, and profil…

And as a secondary thought around Rusoto (which is awesome, but could be even more so) - it would be great if we came up with some way of covering the non-HTTP/REST type services - for example, there are various streaming services (think speech to text, text to speech, etc.) which are simply not covered by Rusoto. So you can configure those services using Rusoto, but not use them. I've written a few medium-hacky clients for things like AWS Transcribe, but it would be great to... well, not have to.

Rusoto is an awesome project though, huge thanks to those who've got it to where it is.

Re: Why AWS loves Rust, and how we’d like to help

#295

Post by steveklabnik »

blub wrote: post #286

It feels like it was yesterday when HN was praising Tim Bray for quitting Amazon AWS [1] over the firing of whistleblowers. And on the other hand we have what appear to be several prominent Rust community members falling over each other to get hired by Amazon and the Rust HN community largely cheering Amazon. The Rust community seems quite desperate for corporate money and support. Amazon's not paying you out of love…

The real world is a complicated thing. It is very possible to be critical of one part of an organization while working with another. Or even be critical of an organization you’re a part of!

Nobody believes they are doing it solely out of love, but luckily, that’s not required for it to be a productive relationship.

Re: Why AWS loves Rust, and how we’d like to help

#296

Post by fastasucan »

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #174
AlisdairO wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW I expect you're getting downvoted for tone. In particular: > I just have too much experience in the industry to throw away my time and play with toys. Implication: Rust is just a toy, people who use it have too much time on their hands, and they're not experienced enough to have good judgement. IMO if you're interested in a productive conversation you'd probably have better luck if you simply omitted content lik…

OK, good point. Removing it.

Maybe consider this as well:

>It's just not a concern I have. Perhaps with enough time and coercion I'll find a reason to use it.

Or just don't? Its like the validity of Rust is dependent on wether you use it or not. Try a different tone, and change a mindset from where yourself have to acknowledge/use/like something for it to be valid. If a fact based discussion about this is to be had you need to stop shoving your anecdotes and personal likings in the way. Its impossible for people to know whether Rust is right for you, and thats a pretty boring discussion by itself.

I've never moved past reading the rust docs, but I understand why people react on your comments.

Re: Why AWS loves Rust, and how we’d like to help

#297

Post by kortilla »

wbl wrote: post #40
kortilla wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has lived through hype cycles, big companies can pull the rug just as quickly on these investments as they’ve made them. While this does indicate a more serious interest, it’s not nearly the safety net you think. To the contrary, a bunch of FAANG driven contributions tend to make projects focused too much on particular use cases. Go’s clusterfuck of package management is entirely because Google doesn’t…

What clusterfuck? The current version module system works if people can maintain compat. If not, nothing will save you.

The current version module system is built on a decade of anguish that finally toppled over and forced some serious interest. The problem is that it was a complete non-issue for Google because of the monorepo so the golang devs employed by Google severely downplayed the problem.

Re: Why AWS loves Rust, and how we’d like to help

#298

Post by mr_toad »

johnnycerberus wrote: post #27
SoSoRoCoCo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Friends of mine that are contract programmers have been ramping on Rust for the past 2-3 years claiming the number of requests for it has been increasing exponentially. I installed it two weeks ago and have been getting a feel for it. It's like if C++, C#, and npm had an offspring. I always hoped Java would make a comeback, but Rust is looking like the real deal.

Applications of Java and Rust do not overlap. As a big data engineer, Rust does not provide any advantage to me. Good luck rewritting all the big data tools from Java (Elasticsearch, Spark, Kafka, Hadoop, Neo4j, Deeplearning4j, Cassandra, Solr, Arrow, OrientDB) and all the scientific stuff from C++ (Eigen, Tensorflow, PyTorch, Jax, Halide, OpenCV and the multitude of resources for CUDA and OpenCL) and databases (MySQ…

Stuff written before Rust existed was not written in Rust? I’m shocked. That’s like going back to the 90’s and pointing to all the software not written in Java.

And as for browsers, you know Mozilla created Rust specifically for Firefox?

Re: Why AWS loves Rust, and how we’d like to help

#299

Post by mr_toad »

johnnycerberus wrote: post #148
throwaway894345 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment seems to assume that your use case “big data engineer” is the only use case or the only Java use case and that the only context in which Rust can grow is to rewrite the existing tools that you use today (as opposed to greenfield projects like firecracker or bottle rocket). Your edit also writes Rust off as “idealistic” and not “pragmatic” without support, which is very far from the impression I have (bas…

Firecracker and Bottlerocket are fine pieces of engineering. If Rust wants to get a share of the pie when it comes to data engineering, then it needs to have at least a killer app with an ecosystem around it. We can talk all day and all night for why some languages are more successful than others but it seems like ecosystems are giving them a boost. Hopefully, Rust will be the language for microVMs and kernel-level m…

> it needs to have at least a killer app with an ecosystem around it

Give it 20 years and I can see it doing to Python what Python did to R.

Re: Why AWS loves Rust, and how we’d like to help

#300

Post by ashneo76 »

If there is anyone here from the rust community, please please please stay away from amazon. There is nothing stopping amazon and aws. Any thing they do is evil. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25196521

If there is an opencollective somewhere, I am not than happy to give you the money directly. I support Mozilla and Wikipedia and other projects to my best effort, and I would love it if others can do that too.

All Amazon has ever done is lip service to open source. There is a multibillionaire at the top with no need for that money who every day costs not to do something good for the planet and is instead enabling commoditizing the general populace.

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