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Why AWS loves Rust, and how we’d like to help

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Re: Why AWS loves Rust, and how we’d like to help

#91

Post by hundchenkatze »

johnnycerberus wrote: post #27
SoSoRoCoCo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Friends of mine that are contract programmers have been ramping on Rust for the past 2-3 years claiming the number of requests for it has been increasing exponentially. I installed it two weeks ago and have been getting a feel for it. It's like if C++, C#, and npm had an offspring. I always hoped Java would make a comeback, but Rust is looking like the real deal.

Applications of Java and Rust do not overlap. As a big data engineer, Rust does not provide any advantage to me. Good luck rewritting all the big data tools from Java (Elasticsearch, Spark, Kafka, Hadoop, Neo4j, Deeplearning4j, Cassandra, Solr, Arrow, OrientDB) and all the scientific stuff from C++ (Eigen, Tensorflow, PyTorch, Jax, Halide, OpenCV and the multitude of resources for CUDA and OpenCL) and databases (MySQ…

The part you seem to be replying to doesn't imply that Rust is or should replace Java, at least not to me.

> I always hoped Java would make a comeback, but Rust is looking like the real deal.

To me it seems like SoSoRoCoCo is hoping their preferred language would make a comeback in popularity while also acknowledging that Rust is gaining popularity and real-world demand.

Re: Why AWS loves Rust, and how we’d like to help

#92

Post by tomjakubowski »

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #50

Am I just not "with it?" I don't see the appeal of Rust, but it gets the hottest talk in HN-town. Maybe it's just because I haven't worked long enough with C or C++ to complain about them (only about a decade or so), but I don't have any issues with those languages. And I find it wholly unappealing to abandon the existing corpus of literal decades of knowledge having been poured into those language ecosystems all in…

Short, incomplete list of reasons I prefer Rust, speaking from about five years experience with C++:

* Real pattern matching and sum types. std::variant doesn't cut the mustard

* Traits and derivable impls, rather than obscure operator overloads with fussy cv-qualified signatures

* No iterator invalidation bugs (among the worst C++ issues to debug, IME); no inheritance or need to care about "virtual destructors"; no "object slicing"; no crazy interactions between overloads and templates which require an IDE to determine which function you are actually calling

* Way better compiler error messages than clang or gcc

Each of those "no"s is something I've spent days if not weeks of my C++ career debugging.

Re: Why AWS loves Rust, and how we’d like to help

#93

Post by cogman10 »

throw_m239339 wrote: post #53
ibraheemdev wrote: post #2

It's nice to see another large Rust sponsor after the unfortunate layoffs at Mozilla

Mozilla management is completely clueless. KaiOS (ex FirefoxOS) is making a killing right now and has become the third most popular mobile OS, just behind Android and IOS. They fired the dev docs team, fired most rust devs and are mismanaging Firefox. Well maybe the people in charge are the ones that are not fit for the company...

Crazy, didn't realize that was still a thing.

All the phones that support it feel like throwbacks from 2003. (It's KaiOS, btw)

Re: Why AWS loves Rust, and how we’d like to help

#94

Post by roncohen »

bsaul wrote: post #54

So, Apple got swift, Google got Dart and Go, i guess Amazon is trying to "have" rust ? I hope Amazon will keep the open source nature of Rust. This post is obviously from an engineer, but i fear the day business people will start looking into ways to leverage the contribution Amazon made to Rust.

> This post is obviously from an engineer

Not really. The post is by Matt Asay who's title is Head of Open Source Strategy and Marketing. The post reads like an attempt at improving upon the negative image AWS has garnered in open source by making money on open source projects without paying, or sometimes without even crediting, the authors. Most recent examples include Headless Recorder[1] and before that Kafka, Elasticsearch etc.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24799660

Re: Why AWS loves Rust, and how we’d like to help

#95

Post by codethief »

offtop5 wrote: post #7

Great to see Rust won't be starved for support. Now someone needs to take over MDN . By far the best JavaScript documentation

I don't think MDN is going to go anywhere anytime soon. I remember someone on Twitter saying that there are enough people from other organizations who had already been involved in the MDN docs before the lay-offs at Mozilla and that these people will likely stay involved.

Case in point: Both the MDN Github repos and the MDN docs (or at least all the pages I bothered to look at) show very recent activity:

https://github.com/mdn/

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web (scroll all the way down to "Last modified")

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/A_re...

Re: Why AWS loves Rust, and how we’d like to help

#96

Post by JoshTriplett »

johnnujler wrote: post #47
nicoburns wrote: post #4

I believe that's Amazon, Microsoft and Facebook all looking to get involved in core Rust development (I think partially triggered by the Mozilla layoffs). If anybody was still harbouring doubts about Rust's future, now is the time to lay them aside.

Great thing but I feel these companies are just too clever for Rust. Rust is a developer’s delight and I don’t want it to become like C++, and I feel the C++ standard got worse especially after these so-called great companies became a part of the standards committee. Or take the example of Web, made worse after the Googles and the Apples of the world got in. So I have mixed feelings about too many clever people doing…

> Rust is a developer’s delight and I don’t want it to become like C++, and I feel the C++ standard got worse especially after these so-called great companies became a part of the standards committee.

On the Rust language team, we are extremely mindful of managing complexity, and we typically err on the side of not including a feature (even if it's desired) if it feels like it adds too much complexity or surface area to the language. We've also paid attention to other language design processes and learned from them.

Re: Why AWS loves Rust, and how we’d like to help

#97

Post by andrewmcwatters »

wwright wrote: post #61
andrewmcwatters wrote: post #50

Am I just not "with it?" I don't see the appeal of Rust, but it gets the hottest talk in HN-town. Maybe it's just because I haven't worked long enough with C or C++ to complain about them (only about a decade or so), but I don't have any issues with those languages. And I find it wholly unappealing to abandon the existing corpus of literal decades of knowledge having been poured into those language ecosystems all in…

> but still came away with the feeling there was literally no one using Servo Code from Servo is in every single copy of Firefox, so it's pretty popular as code goes. > And I find it wholly unappealing to abandon the existing corpus of literal decades of knowledge having been poured into those language ecosystems all in the name of whatever it is that Rust delivers on. I just have too much experience in the industry…

> Code from Servo is in every single copy of Firefox, so it's pretty popular as code goes.

This is akin to saying the DWM is in every copy of Windows so it's the most popular graphical compositor of all time.

Re: Why AWS loves Rust, and how we’d like to help

#98

Post by twic »

johnnycerberus wrote: post #27
SoSoRoCoCo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Friends of mine that are contract programmers have been ramping on Rust for the past 2-3 years claiming the number of requests for it has been increasing exponentially. I installed it two weeks ago and have been getting a feel for it. It's like if C++, C#, and npm had an offspring. I always hoped Java would make a comeback, but Rust is looking like the real deal.

Applications of Java and Rust do not overlap. As a big data engineer, Rust does not provide any advantage to me. Good luck rewritting all the big data tools from Java (Elasticsearch, Spark, Kafka, Hadoop, Neo4j, Deeplearning4j, Cassandra, Solr, Arrow, OrientDB) and all the scientific stuff from C++ (Eigen, Tensorflow, PyTorch, Jax, Halide, OpenCV and the multitude of resources for CUDA and OpenCL) and databases (MySQ…

I write Java and Rust at work, and i more or less agree.

More or less because there is some overlap: for example, people write low-latency trading systems in both. But it's very hard to get Java to perform well at the kind of work where Rust shines naturally.

There is also very little overlap between Rust and Go. There's far more between Java and Go than Rust and either!

Re: Why AWS loves Rust, and how we’d like to help

#99

Post by offtop5 »

codethief wrote: post #95
offtop5 wrote: post #7

Great to see Rust won't be starved for support. Now someone needs to take over MDN . By far the best JavaScript documentation

I don't think MDN is going to go anywhere anytime soon. I remember someone on Twitter saying that there are enough people from other organizations who had already been involved in the MDN docs before the lay-offs at Mozilla and that these people will likely stay involved. Case in point: Both the MDN Github repos and the MDN docs (or at least all the pages I bothered to look at) show very recent activity: https://gith…

Still helps to have paid employees working on it.

I'm happy to see community involvement, but it's such a vital resource that deserves funding

Re: Why AWS loves Rust, and how we’d like to help

#100

Post by [deleted] »

gibolt wrote: post #84
smarx007 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I always hoped Java would make a comeback In order to make a comeback, Java first needs to fall from the TOP 3 languages used by professional programmers in the world. https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2020#most-popular-...

These insights are a snapshot, not a trend line. Java can be in rapid decline and still be at the top of the list. Changing acceleration, not position, is how you make a comeback. Java is currently losing Android devs to Kotlin. That could cause a precipitous drop in direct usage in the coming years.

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