Why AWS loves Rust, and how we’d like to help • Hacker News Board

Re: Why AWS loves Rust, and how we’d like to help

#51

Post by saagarjha » Tue, Nov 24, 2020, 6:14 PM UTC

johnnycerberus wrote: post #27

SoSoRoCoCo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Friends of mine that are contract programmers have been ramping on Rust for the past 2-3 years claiming the number of requests for it has been increasing exponentially. I installed it two weeks ago and have been getting a feel for it. It's like if C++, C#, and npm had an offspring. I always hoped Java would make a comeback, but Rust is looking like the real deal.

Applications of Java and Rust do not overlap. As a big data engineer, Rust does not provide any advantage to me. Good luck rewritting all the big data tools from Java (Elasticsearch, Spark, Kafka, Hadoop, Neo4j, Deeplearning4j, Cassandra, Solr, Arrow, OrientDB) and all the scientific stuff from C++ (Eigen, Tensorflow, PyTorch, Jax, Halide, OpenCV and the multitude of resources for CUDA and OpenCL) and databases (MySQ…

> the browsers are all C++

You mean one is already shipping Rust and another seems to be on track to shipping it soon?

Re: Why AWS loves Rust, and how we’d like to help

#52

Post by augusto-moura » Tue, Nov 24, 2020, 6:14 PM UTC

johnnycerberus wrote: post #27

SoSoRoCoCo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Friends of mine that are contract programmers have been ramping on Rust for the past 2-3 years claiming the number of requests for it has been increasing exponentially. I installed it two weeks ago and have been getting a feel for it. It's like if C++, C#, and npm had an offspring. I always hoped Java would make a comeback, but Rust is looking like the real deal.

Applications of Java and Rust do not overlap. As a big data engineer, Rust does not provide any advantage to me. Good luck rewritting all the big data tools from Java (Elasticsearch, Spark, Kafka, Hadoop, Neo4j, Deeplearning4j, Cassandra, Solr, Arrow, OrientDB) and all the scientific stuff from C++ (Eigen, Tensorflow, PyTorch, Jax, Halide, OpenCV and the multitude of resources for CUDA and OpenCL) and databases (MySQ…

You are saying different things as one argument.

Yes, Java applications and Rust mostly don't overlap, but there are exceptions in both ecosystems.

Rust might offer some advantages for Data Engineers (the same way as CUDA applications in C++), not all of them as with every language else, and yes you can write Data centric libraries in Rust for Python (easier than C/C++ IIRC).

And no, there's no need to rewrite existing services to Rust, it can interface with all the examples you cited.

To me Rust is just a simpler and safer C++, if you said you would program C++, you probably will want to program Rust, writing C++ bindings for Rust is basic stuff nowadays

Re: Why AWS loves Rust, and how we’d like to help

#53

Post by throw_m239339 » Tue, Nov 24, 2020, 6:16 PM UTC

ibraheemdev wrote: post #2

It's nice to see another large Rust sponsor after the unfortunate layoffs at Mozilla

Mozilla management is completely clueless. KaiOS (ex FirefoxOS) is making a killing right now and has become the third most popular mobile OS, just behind Android and IOS. They fired the dev docs team, fired most rust devs and are mismanaging Firefox. Well maybe the people in charge are the ones that are not fit for the company...

Re: Why AWS loves Rust, and how we’d like to help

#54

Post by bsaul » Tue, Nov 24, 2020, 6:18 PM UTC

So, Apple got swift, Google got Dart and Go, i guess Amazon is trying to "have" rust ?

I hope Amazon will keep the open source nature of Rust. This post is obviously from an engineer, but i fear the day business people will start looking into ways to leverage the contribution Amazon made to Rust.

Re: Why AWS loves Rust, and how we’d like to help

#55

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Nov 24, 2020, 6:18 PM UTC

johnnycerberus wrote: post #27

SoSoRoCoCo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Friends of mine that are contract programmers have been ramping on Rust for the past 2-3 years claiming the number of requests for it has been increasing exponentially. I installed it two weeks ago and have been getting a feel for it. It's like if C++, C#, and npm had an offspring. I always hoped Java would make a comeback, but Rust is looking like the real deal.

Applications of Java and Rust do not overlap. As a big data engineer, Rust does not provide any advantage to me. Good luck rewritting all the big data tools from Java (Elasticsearch, Spark, Kafka, Hadoop, Neo4j, Deeplearning4j, Cassandra, Solr, Arrow, OrientDB) and all the scientific stuff from C++ (Eigen, Tensorflow, PyTorch, Jax, Halide, OpenCV and the multitude of resources for CUDA and OpenCL) and databases (MySQ…

[deleted]

Re: Why AWS loves Rust, and how we’d like to help

#56

Post by throwaway894345 » Tue, Nov 24, 2020, 6:18 PM UTC

johnnycerberus wrote: post #27

SoSoRoCoCo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Friends of mine that are contract programmers have been ramping on Rust for the past 2-3 years claiming the number of requests for it has been increasing exponentially. I installed it two weeks ago and have been getting a feel for it. It's like if C++, C#, and npm had an offspring. I always hoped Java would make a comeback, but Rust is looking like the real deal.

Applications of Java and Rust do not overlap. As a big data engineer, Rust does not provide any advantage to me. Good luck rewritting all the big data tools from Java (Elasticsearch, Spark, Kafka, Hadoop, Neo4j, Deeplearning4j, Cassandra, Solr, Arrow, OrientDB) and all the scientific stuff from C++ (Eigen, Tensorflow, PyTorch, Jax, Halide, OpenCV and the multitude of resources for CUDA and OpenCL) and databases (MySQ…

Your comment seems to assume that your use case “big data engineer” is the only use case or the only Java use case and that the only context in which Rust can grow is to rewrite the existing tools that you use today (as opposed to greenfield projects like firecracker or bottle rocket). Your edit also writes Rust off as “idealistic” and not “pragmatic” without support, which is very far from the impression I have (based on my usage and seeing it used in real applications). In general, your comment seems like generic programming language flamebait.

Re: Why AWS loves Rust, and how we’d like to help

#57

Post by xiphias2 » Tue, Nov 24, 2020, 6:18 PM UTC

steveklabnik wrote: post #37

xiphias2 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully it will be more open with showing where the sponsorship money goes (I hope most of it will go to developers and Rust contributors like you) than other foundations that I don't want to name here.

The foundation is being set up by the Rust team, to be clear. I think with "more open" you're suggesting that this is like, an offshoot of mofo or something.

I don't understand your answer completely, but I guess you know that the Mozilla execs are not the most trusted people right now by HN folks, so ,,offshot of mofo'' doesn't sound as good as Rust foundation by Rust core contributors :)

Anyways I really hope it will be successful!

Re: Why AWS loves Rust, and how we’d like to help

#58

Post by ForHackernews » Tue, Nov 24, 2020, 6:19 PM UTC

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #50

Am I just not "with it?" I don't see the appeal of Rust, but it gets the hottest talk in HN-town. Maybe it's just because I haven't worked long enough with C or C++ to complain about them (only about a decade or so), but I don't have any issues with those languages. And I find it wholly unappealing to abandon the existing corpus of literal decades of knowledge having been poured into those language ecosystems all in…

I haven't used it myself, but my understanding as an outsider is that a lot of the excitement around Rust is that it's bringing a new model of memory safety: with the borrow-checker, you can avoid the performance penalties of garbage collection, while also avoiding the bugs and security risks seen in C.

People who care about such things are really hyped because it's a truly new idea in a mainstream(ish) language.

https://willcrichton.net/notes/rust-memory-safety/

Re: Why AWS loves Rust, and how we’d like to help

#59

Post by jodrellblank » Tue, Nov 24, 2020, 6:20 PM UTC

johnnycerberus wrote: post #42

coddle-hark wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With this logic there should be no new programming languages ever until there’s a paradigm shift in computing.

> I always hoped Java would make a comeback, but Rust is looking like the real deal. I was mainly responding to this statement which came across quite aggressive. Java and C++ do not need comebacks and my comment was intended to be a wake-up call to reality. Yes, it is great to learn Rust on the side, but advocating something to be used everywhere is another story.

> "but advocating something to be used everywhere is another story."

Where is that in the comment you replied to?

Re: Why AWS loves Rust, and how we’d like to help

#60

Post by johnnycerberus » Tue, Nov 24, 2020, 6:21 PM UTC

stagger87 wrote: post #45

johnnycerberus wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Applications of Java and Rust do not overlap. As a big data engineer, Rust does not provide any advantage to me. Good luck rewritting all the big data tools from Java (Elasticsearch, Spark, Kafka, Hadoop, Neo4j, Deeplearning4j, Cassandra, Solr, Arrow, OrientDB) and all the scientific stuff from C++ (Eigen, Tensorflow, PyTorch, Jax, Halide, OpenCV and the multitude of resources for CUDA and OpenCL) and databases (MySQ…

There will be people who downvote you because... - You are hijacking a top comment to insert your off-topic opinion. - You appear to be more territorial than presenting some sort of argument. - You are overly negative and somewhat dismissive/disrespectful. - You are commenting on downvotes, which is generally frowned upon

My comment in on point, not off-topic. I had no intention to "hijack" the top comment, didn't even think about that until I've seen your comment. I don't see Rust as a replacement for Java and I also pointed out that Rust has to win the mindshare of C++ programmers first, before even reaching other ecosystems. Rust is mainly a replacement for C++.