The CIA's Quest for Mind Control: Torture, LSD and a 'Poisoner in Chief' • Hacker News Board

Re: The CIA's Quest for Mind Control: Torture, LSD and a 'Poisoner in Chief'

#181

Post by dragonwriter » Tue, Nov 24, 2020, 10:10 AM UTC

gurkendoktor wrote: post #180

jonathanstrange wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two problems with your reply: 1. It only talks about "in America", meaning the US. There are 192 other countries. 2. I haven't said it's unfathomable. It's ridiculously unlikely, though. Journalists are not exactly known for their secrecy, even if they wanted to they wouldn't be able to hide a gigantic mind control collusion among the six corporations you've mentioned. There is no grand conspiracy. On a side note, ed…

Or maybe this insane nonsense has become so powerful because the official narratives are much dumber than I seem to remember them from before. Probably a result of both increasing polarization and shrinking media budgets. For example, covid is just the flu, and only xenophobes would enact travel bans over it. No wait, corona is terrible and it's Trump's fault for not containing it. No wait, we should all go to BLM pr…

> Or Pizzagate, where it felt like the official narrative had solidly won after someone wanted to raid the pedophile dungeon and couldn't find it. Case closed! Until the Epstein story happened, Clinton's name was on the flight list several times, and the media acted in actual unison by ignoring this case.

Er, the Epstein and Clinton connection first arose before Pizzagate, and it covered in the mainstream media. It then arose again when Epstein was charged the last time, and even more widely reported by the mainstream media. And it arose again very recently in the context of the Ghislaine Maxwell case, and, is right now being extensively covered in the mainstream media. This isn't a matter of cherry-picking facts to spin a conspiracy theory around and just ignoring facts that contradict the theory, it's inventing false facts to justify a conspiracy theory (which is then used to place blame for belief in other conspiracy theories.)

Re: The CIA's Quest for Mind Control: Torture, LSD and a 'Poisoner in Chief'

#182

Post by gurkendoktor » Tue, Nov 24, 2020, 12:36 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #181

gurkendoktor wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe this insane nonsense has become so powerful because the official narratives are much dumber than I seem to remember them from before. Probably a result of both increasing polarization and shrinking media budgets. For example, covid is just the flu, and only xenophobes would enact travel bans over it. No wait, corona is terrible and it's Trump's fault for not containing it. No wait, we should all go to BLM pr…

> Or Pizzagate, where it felt like the official narrative had solidly won after someone wanted to raid the pedophile dungeon and couldn't find it. Case closed! Until the Epstein story happened, Clinton's name was on the flight list several times, and the media acted in actual unison by ignoring this case. Er, the Epstein and Clinton connection first arose before Pizzagate, and it covered in the mainstream media. It t…

I had edited my comment while you were replying. The media did not "ignore the case", sorry. There are plenty of articles about Epstein and Maxwell, and Prince Andrew didn't get away either.

But that's about it, isn't it? Everyone else who hung out with them just has to say "whoops, I totally didn't know about their pedo side", and that's the end of the story. Which is amazing when even low-level socialites like Ellen Pao were apparently aware of Maxwell's side business. Where was the pressure from journalists on law enforcement, and from law enforcement on those involved? Too late now anyway, I guess?

For what it's worth, my own pessimism is mostly based on the disastrous Dutroux case over here in Europe. If 27 witnesses can get killed over what is presumably a much lower-profile pedophile ring, then what chance do we have to ever know about the depth of Epstein's connections, or even just his death? (I'd love to be proven wrong!)

I'm not saying that this validates any particular conspiracy theory (I agree with [1]), but that it highlighted an immense imbalance of power and transparency between the 0.001% and the rest of us. Epstein was a comic-book villain walking free. I believe that if the media can make it clear that they're fighting _for us_, people won't look to QAnon for salvation.

[1] https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/07/does-the-jeffrey-eps...

Re: The CIA's Quest for Mind Control: Torture, LSD and a 'Poisoner in Chief'

#183

Post by mistermann » Tue, Nov 24, 2020, 4:06 PM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #174

mistermann wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've had college classes in things like Social Psychology and Negotiation and Conflict Management. I know something about best practices for dealing with difficult group dynamics. And it shows! That's a big part of why I'm a fan. That, and that you are an independent thinker (no small feat these days), and lots of other things. > And in my experience and opinion, it will go better if you actually follow the guideli…

Certain ideas (perspectives on reality, even though they are accurate) are not acceptable here I'm so controversial on so many axes that I simply don't care that some of my opinions don't play well here and I've largely stopped talking about certain things here. Like vaccines. No matter what I say, both pro-vaxxers and anti-vaxxers are equally hateful. And I feel it's not super important and it's just something I rar…

I too am controversial on many axes, which is maybe why I find you interesting - in an era when The Experts and Rationalists can't get even remotely hope to get their shit together, after being given decades to do it, seeing what the freaks even have to say about matters maybe isn't such a crazy idea.

It's sad that you and I differ on whether it's important to understand other people though. I wonder if there's anyone on this planet that is able to even consider the possibility that understanding is important, maybe even when it seems like it isn't. In any normal undertaking, if what you're trying isn't working, it would seem logical to try something else. But when the scope of the undertaking gets too large, this thinking seems to mysteriously change.

Enjoy your day as well. :)

Re: The CIA's Quest for Mind Control: Torture, LSD and a 'Poisoner in Chief'

#184

Post by AndrewBissell » Wed, Nov 25, 2020, 12:44 AM UTC

gurkendoktor wrote: post #182

dragonwriter wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or Pizzagate, where it felt like the official narrative had solidly won after someone wanted to raid the pedophile dungeon and couldn't find it. Case closed! Until the Epstein story happened, Clinton's name was on the flight list several times, and the media acted in actual unison by ignoring this case. Er, the Epstein and Clinton connection first arose before Pizzagate, and it covered in the mainstream media. It t…

I had edited my comment while you were replying. The media did not "ignore the case", sorry. There are plenty of articles about Epstein and Maxwell, and Prince Andrew didn't get away either. But that's about it, isn't it? Everyone else who hung out with them just has to say "whoops, I totally didn't know about their pedo side", and that's the end of the story. Which is amazing when even low-level socialites like Elle…

> I'm not saying that this validates any particular conspiracy theory (I agree with [1]), but that it highlighted an immense imbalance of power and transparency between the 0.001% and the rest of us. Epstein was a comic-book villain walking free. I believe that if the media can make it clear that they're fighting _for us_, people won't look to QAnon for salvation.

QFT. Epstein's death, and the way the media immediately circled the wagons to browbeat anyone questioning its circumstances with charges of "baseless conspiracy theory," was basically the decisive factor in my switching from a Skeptic-reading blanket conspiracy doubter to someone who takes a pretty wide number of theories seriously.

The media hasn't even bothered asking the FBI why they haven't raided Epstein's New Mexico ranch. Whether that's an explicit directive from on high or they just instinctively know where their bread is buttered, it's clear whose side they're on.