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Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

launchpad.ethereum.org

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Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#91

Post by Ruphin »

ajkdhcb2 wrote: post #54

When I go through the steps to see what needs to be done to be a validator it says "terms of use are entered into by and between you and the Ethereum Foundation". So it's a centralized joke?

The Terms of Service cover the usage of the Launchpad website. The website is a service created by the Ethereum Foundation to guide users through the procedures required to join the Ethereum 2.0 network as a validator. You don't need to use this website (or agree to the TOS for the website) to participate in the Ethereum 2.0 network. The technical requirements and procedures are fully documented in other places (in a more technical less user friendly manner).

I imagine they added a ToS to avoid "I used your website and I lost all my money"-type lawsuits.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#92

Post by rcxdude »

globular-toast wrote: post #81
newyankee wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this mean no more mining and waste of electricity ?

Probably not. Proof of work seems to be essential for a successful currency. Go visit the City of London or the Financial District of Manhattan to check out the proof of work of the current financial industry. Millions of people busying around and spending time in huge buildings that are---quite evidently now during the pandemic---completely unnecessary. If you really want to stop waste then try to convince people to…

This is, to put it mildly, bollocks. Bitcoin uses more energy than the entire finance industry to supervise far less capital and conduct far fewer transactions (by multiple orders of magnitude). You are equivocating by equating levels of inefficiency which differ so drastically you are either deliberately misleading people or have been mislead yourself.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#93

Post by ehou »

globular-toast wrote: post #85
emilsedgh wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there were refrigerators that could work without electricity with no the same set of capabilities, then any refrigerator still using electricity would be considered wasteful.

If that happened then we'd just start using the electricity for something non-essential instead. Humanity is not interested in efficiency for the sake of reducing footprint. Humanity is only interested in more. If anything, fridges using more electricity means less electricity wasted (assuming refrigeration is essential and not a waste). This pattern seems to be everywhere. Cheaper electricity: more electricity used.…

Light bulbs. I do not want or have “more light” in my house but do have a lower energy bill after replacing them by LED versions

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#94

Post by beaner »

rglullis wrote: post #84
beaner wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We are only talking about "conversion of energy into money" because that is what the best current implementation of a BFT system is using. Yes, that's my point isn't it? I said "Bitcoin's proof of work is basically a conversion of energy directly into money." I did not say "all systems for ensuring the soundness of proofs in blockchains are a conversion of energy directly into money." What we care about is trust mi…

> What we care about is trust minimization And the costs of achieving those. > provides the best-yet incentives At an ever-growing prohibitive cost . > most equitable distribution of coin. Hardly true when you have more than 50% of the hashing power coming from farms ran in China on subsidized power and not paying for externalities.

I think you have it backwards. The price of the asset being mined determines the costs of the energy put in to mine it.

By equitable distribution, I mean that mining is on average only marginally profitable; the bulk of mined coin needs to be sold on the open market, which means there is always liquidity and availability to those seeking to enter or exit.

Hashing power centralization and coin distribution are different topics. Decentralization of hashing power will continue to increase as the renewable energy costs continue to lower, because they will eventually match and then lower beneath the subsidized rates currently available only in specific jurisdictions. Costs will shift to initial capital investment rather than energy supply.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#95

Post by beaner »

rglullis wrote: post #83
beaner wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proof-of-stake requires the majority of what is mined has to be sold on the open market. This redistributes mined coin to any user anywhere, rich or poor. If you mine and do not sell, you perpetually consume and fail in short order. Proof-of-stake doesn't require this natural, market-driven redistribution. It exchanges it for an inflationary process that further separates the rich and the poor. They're fundamentally…

You are completely ignoring second-order effects for these systems. You can quite easily turn resources obtained from a PoW system into a PoS financial system and have the worst of both worlds. Do you want an example? > If you mine and do not sell, you perpetually consume and fail in short order. With ETH you can mine ETH, lock in a MakerDAO vault and pay your operations with very low-interest DAI and use that to fin…

> You are completely ignoring second-order effects for these systems

Which ones? I don't believe I am, they're just not the point being discussed here.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#96

Post by globular-toast »

rcxdude wrote: post #92
globular-toast wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably not. Proof of work seems to be essential for a successful currency. Go visit the City of London or the Financial District of Manhattan to check out the proof of work of the current financial industry. Millions of people busying around and spending time in huge buildings that are---quite evidently now during the pandemic---completely unnecessary. If you really want to stop waste then try to convince people to…

This is, to put it mildly, bollocks. Bitcoin uses more energy than the entire finance industry to supervise far less capital and conduct far fewer transactions (by multiple orders of magnitude ). You are equivocating by equating levels of inefficiency which differ so drastically you are either deliberately misleading people or have been mislead yourself.

I didn't say a single thing about efficiency or bitcoin consumption vs banking industry consumption.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#97

Post by _2d30 »

keymone wrote: post #69
newyankee wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this mean no more mining and waste of electricity ?

zero electricity is wasted on PoW cryptocurrencies. energy consumption is equivalent to constant maintenance of security at the level demanded by market.

I mean I guess this depends on how one defines waste but under definitions I generally come across, if you could get the same level of security for less electricity in a new scheme, then the old scheme is wasting electricity.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#98

Post by danw1979 »

dane-pgp wrote: post #24
adrianN wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many existing processes that basically turn energy into money. It's called energy intensive industry. So far instead of pushing for renewables, companies making their money this way were a major hindrance in clean energy investments.

I'm not sure which energy intensive industries you're thinking of, but bitcoin mining has the potential advantage that it can be turned on and off at a moment's notice, and doesn't require constant human supervision. That's not true of a lot of industrial processes.

It can’t be turned off at will if you’ve got a huge investment in mining infrastructure that needs to pay for itself and the margins are so thin you can’t afford downtime.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#99

Post by itsthecourier »

mikkelam wrote: post #39

I honestly think eth2 will have an incredible effect. Think of all the developing countries or countries without proper financial infrastructure, even places where you do not trust your local currency. All these places will benefit hugely from a bootstrapped currency ready to be deployed for very little effort. Launching an ecommerce will suddenly be much easier for a many more people. I'm also very interested in see…

Ecommerce also depends on the ability to question your credit card charges. Something you cannot do with ethereum.

Don't get me wrong, I use ethereum, but I'm aware of its limitations

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#100

Post by baltbalt »

beaner wrote: post #7
newyankee wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this mean no more mining and waste of electricity ?

Just to riff on this idea, despite inevitable pushback: Bitcoin's proof-of-work is basically a conversion of energy directly into money. This pushes competition towards cheaper and cheaper sources of energy. First it's finding jurisdictions that subsidize it, then it's creating your own cheaper energy sources. Proof-of-work incentivizes cheap & renewable energy investment. The penultimate phase is custom off-grid min…

lol
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